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L Date: 07-27-90 (10:53) Number: 9124 / 9466 (Echo) To: STEVEN ZASSMAN Refer#: NONE From: DENNIS EDWARDS Read: NO Subj: Find free memory Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │I am trying to write a function which will return the amount of memory │available, similar to CHKDSK.COM. mov ah, 50h ; get current PSP from DOS int 21h mov es, bx ; returned in BX put in ES mov bx, 2 ; get paras remaining from PSP mov ax, es:[bx] ; into AX (AX *16 = bytes free) --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 07-26-90 (03:30) Number: 9126 / 9466 (Echo) To: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Refer#: NONE From: MOSES OLIVER Read: 08-24-90 (23:46) Subj: ^C Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) > > Does anyone know Control-C's interrupt number ? > The machine interrupt vector for int 23H (memory locations 0000:008CH through 0000:008FH) contains the address of the routine which receives control when a Crtl-C is detected during any character I/O function, and if the B eak flag is ON during most other MS-DOS function calls. This interrupt should never be issued directly. As part of the normal housekeeping that DOS performs in executing most Int 21H function calls, DOS checks the status of Control-C flag. The initialization code for an application can use Int 21H Funtion 25H to reset the interrupt 23H vector to point to its own routine Crtl-C handling. In this way the program can avoid being terminated unexpectedly as the result of the user's entry of a Crtl-C or Crtl-Break. IBM Extended Cross Reference DEC HEX OCT ASCII IBM Graph Char. Terminal Key 3 03 03 ETX The Heart Symbol Crtl-C Int 21H Function 25H(37) Set Interrupt vector Initializaes a CPU interrupt to point to an interrupt handling routine. Call with: AH = 25H AL = interrupt number DS:DX = segment:offset of interrupt routine Returns: Nothing I hope I was able to help you out and not get you confused, if you need a better explanation let me know. Moses Oliver --- ■ R105J:Intelec| The Home Place BBS-L.V. 702-641-5624 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 07-26-90 (15:29) Number: 9127 / 9466 (Echo) To: MOSES OLIVER Refer#: NONE From: TERRY SMITH Read: NO Subj: CXL Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Hello Moses... Gosh, if I do not have time to answer your messages, how can I have time to test CXL. <Gasp!> No I have not had a chance to test it. But believe me, when I finish reading the book that I am reading about 'C' and get around to finding the Book that Stirling is using in the advances 'C' class, I just might have time to test the CXL libaries. The DOC file is so long that my printer keeps jamming before it gets done. DO you know how frustrating it is to get 100 pages typed, and then find out that you have to start over again!!! Got any printing utilities that could handle a restart? Yes, I echo your messages. ---Terry --- ■ R105J:Intelec| The Home Place BBS-L.V. 702-641-5624 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 07-26-90 (15:39) Number: 9128 / 9466 (Echo) To: BRUCE KROBUSEK Refer#: NONE From: TERRY SMITH Read: NO Subj: TC++ Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Bruce... I am a new programmer in the 'C' language. And my Basic programming experience taught me, not to be to quick to over-write or toss out old code. It's like the pacifier or comfortable blanket. If you become shakey in the new environment, you have something to fall back on. I do see the need to force myself into using the new so that I can be more comfortable, so I see that I will be zapping that old system as I develop more confidence in myself in the new environment. ---Terry Smith --- ■ R105J:Intelec| The Home Place BBS-L.V. 702-641-5624 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 07-26-90 (18:41) Number: 9129 / 9466 (Echo) To: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Refer#: NONE From: EDWIN FINE Read: 08-24-90 (23:46) Subj: ^C INTERRUPT NUMBER Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) > Does anyone know Control-C's interrupt number? Int 23H is the Ctrl-C handler's address. The machine interrupt vector address is at 0000:008CH through 0000:008FH. This contains the address of the routine that traps the control-C key. You can use Int 21H function 25H to set the int 23H vector to point to your own routine for Ctrl-C handling. A great reference for this kind of info is Advanced MSDOS, by Ray Duncan (Microsoft Press). εƒ -> MegaMail(tm) #0:Adding programmers makes a late project later. 1.12 NET/Mail : InteLec (Tm) : Netline Flagship UsR HST +27-11-482-1285 (SA) PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 07-27-90 (20:47) Number: 9130 / 9466 (Echo) To: STEVE FOX Refer#: NONE From: ED LINDERMAN Read: 08-02-90 (17:44) Subj: MASM JMP Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Thats weird... whenever I write something I never use a short jump.. I always use `JMP label'. The file that I got the error on was under 5k. Any ideas on what went wrong? Thanks a lot for your help. Ed PCRelay:STARFND -> #510 Starfinder I * Renton WA * 206-277-1689 4.10 Date: 07-27-90 (10:57) Number: 9131 / 9466 (Echo) To: TERRY SMITH Refer#: NONE From: DAVID FOX Read: NO Subj: CXL Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) TS> No I have not had a chance to test it. But believe me, when I │finish reading the book that I am reading about 'C' and get around │to finding the Book that Stirling is using in the advances 'C' │class, I just might have time to test the CXL libaries. The DOC │file is so long that my printer keeps jamming before it gets done. │DO you know how frustrating it is to get 100 pages typed, and then │find out that you have to start over again!!! Got any printing │utilities that could handle a restart? ╘═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╛ I often have that problem with the printer.. however, I don't start over again - I load the file (or a copy) into Brief, turn line mark on, search for something on the last page I printed, move the cursor a bit, and delete the block. Then I save, and print from where I left off. ═══ « Session Mngr 0.81ß » The ultimate mail reader is coming soon! --- ■ R105J:Intelec Net ■ The Higher Powered BBS ■ Sunnyvale, CA ■ 408-737-9447 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 07-27-90 (16:11) Number: 9132 / 9466 (Echo) To: MOSES OLIVER Refer#: NONE From: TERRY SMITH Read: NO Subj: YOUR THOUGHT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) -> Hey, This is a thought for the day.... -> "The inevitable result of improved and enlarged communications -> between different levels in a hierarchy is a vastly increased -> area of misunderstanding. Moses.... Please don't tell this to anyone at work. It's bad enough as it is! <Grin!> If those levels beging to agree that misunderstanding is a norm heaven help us!!!! ---Terry --- ■ R105J:Intelec| The Home Place BBS-L.V. 702-641-5624 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 07-26-90 (13:08) Number: 9133 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: GLEN HANDSHU Read: (N/A) Subj: Clarion HELP! Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< W A N T E D >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clarion 2.0 manuals, Complete Set Will consider ANY Books on the Clarion Language, or help in finding titles/publishers of books on this subject. If you can help PLEASE Call Glen at (716)/271-8275 or leave a message. PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-328-8344 Date: 07-29-90 (13:36) Number: 9134 / 9466 (Echo) To: MOSES OLIVER Refer#: 9126 From: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Read: NO Subj: ^C Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │ The machine interrupt vector for int 23H (memory locations │ 0000:008CH through 0000:008FH) contains the address of the routine │ which receives control when a Crtl-C is detected during any charac │ I/O function, and if the B eak flag is ON during most other MS-DOS │ function calls. Thanks, Janos --- ■ EZ 1.27 ■ Date: 07-29-90 (13:36) Number: 9135 / 9466 (Echo) To: EDWIN FINE Refer#: 9129 From: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Read: NO Subj: ^C INTERRUPT NUMBER Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │Int 23H is the Ctrl-C handler's address. │ │The machine interrupt vector address is at 0000:008CH through │0000:008FH. Thanks, Janos --- ■ EZ 1.27 ■ Date: 07-28-90 (09:11) Number: 9136 / 9466 (Echo) To: DEREK BACKUS Refer#: NONE From: GARY BOUCHARD Read: NO Subj: EXAMPLES Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) -> begin Assign(PCBoardDatFile, 'C:\Pcb\Pcboard.Dat'); -> Reset(PCBoardDatFile); -> For Loop := 1 to 25 do begin -> ReadLn(PCBoardDatFile, Inp); -> end; -> BltFilename := Inp; -> end. Thank you greatly for the example..It's seems to be a guarded secret with Pcboard developers anymore...Thanks for your help! NET/Mail : The Computer Store BBS --> Intelec(tm) Network (904)797-4824 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 07-28-90 (09:12) Number: 9137 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: GARY BOUCHARD Read: (N/A) Subj: EXAMPLES Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Thanks to all for the responses on examples of using the Pcboard system files. Does anyone have an example of altering a dir file? Source code would be appreciated! NET/Mail : The Computer Store BBS --> Intelec(tm) Network (904)797-4824 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 07-28-90 (03:39) Number: 9138 / 9466 (Echo) To: TERRY SMITH Refer#: NONE From: MOSES OLIVER Read: NO Subj: COMMENT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Terry It seems that you are finally finding some free time to answer some mail, uh !?!. This is good, so I don't feel like I am writting a message to the wind, without getting a feedback. Thinking about a thought of the day, how do you like this old one "You can't never tellhow deep a puddle is until you step in it." I don't know exactly what kind of programming assigments you have at work, but I can tell that sometimes I get very frustrated with some of the expectations some mgr (end users) have. Have you ever heard this saying: " Any object, regardless of its composition or configuration, may be expected to perform at any time in a totally unexpected manner for reasons that are either totally obscure or completetly mysterious." Well, sometimes thats kind of what happens when some of the end users touch a PC around here, and when that happens gets who gets called to try to trouble shoot it, a problem that only happens when the user is alone with his PC. One of this days I will come up with a code that will keep a history of users imput and when a problem arrives just go to the file replay the history file and get through the keyscan codes, the information needed to answer the question, " What did I do wrong ? " Moses Oliver --- ■ R105J:Intelec| The Home Place BBS-L.V. 702-641-5624 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 07-28-90 (12:18) Number: 9139 / 9466 (Echo) To: TERRY SMITH Refer#: 9128 From: BRUCE KROBUSEK Read: NO Subj: TC++ Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) TS> I am a new programmer in the 'C' language. And my Basic programming TS>experience taught me, not to be to quick to over-write or toss out old TS>code. It's like the pacifier or comfortable blanket. If you become TS>shakey in the new environment, you have something to fall back on. You're right - NEVER throw out old code! And that's not really what I was advocating. I was suggesting getting rid of TC 2.0. With TC+ 1.0 you don't really need TC 2.0 any more. Your old C programs will compile just fine (all of mine have!). The C++ portion of the compiler is an option that you don't really have to use if you don't want to. I have yet to try it myself, actually. At any rate, as long as you have the hard disk space available, it really is a moot point. - BAK - 7/28/90 --- ■ EZ 1.31 #1085 ■ CoSysOp - Data Comm 716-271-6582 PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-328-8344 Date: 07-26-90 (03:12) Number: 9140 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: LARRY HELBER Read: (N/A) Subj: C++ AND IOSTREAMS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) I am having a hard time trying to figure out how i can read in a structure in C++. In regular C this would work and is faster than reading in each element. So far the only thing I get from the compiler is you "cannot assign nameage to char *". Anyone have any suggestions about how I can do this? #include <conio.h> #include <iostream.h> #include <fstream.h> struct nameage { char name [25]; int age; }; int main() { struct nameage data; ifstream infile ("test.dat",ios::in); infile.read((char *) data, sizeof(data)); cout << data.name << "\t" << data.age << "\n"; } NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - Spencerport Ny (716) 352-5765 PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-328-8344 Date: 07-30-90 (10:36) Number: 9141 / 9466 (Echo) To: ED LINDERMAN Refer#: NONE From: DENNIS EDWARDS Read: NO Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │ Can someone please tell me how to tell MASM that you want to jump more │than 128+- bytes in a direction. Thanks. if you're referring the conditional jumps, the accepted practice for getting around: cmp this, that je label_out_of_range is: cmp this, that jne label_in_range jmp label_out_of_range label_in_range: ... label_out_of_range; OPTASM will do that kind of stuff for you and so your code just looks better. It will also squish NOPs resulting from forward referenced labels and the assembler's assumed jump instruction sizes. Good product. If you are jumping to an int vector: old_int_vector label dword vector_offs dw ? vector_segm dw ? int_handler proc jmp cs:old_int_vector ;or jmp far ptr old_int_vector ;or jmp dword ptr old_int_vector ; calls are done the same way and the second one is the common way to cross ; segment boundaries to public routines. int_handler endp --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 07-30-90 (08:43) Number: 9142 / 9466 (Echo) To: MOSES OLIVER Refer#: NONE From: GREG HEWGILL Read: NO Subj: COMMENT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) MO> One of this days I will come up with a code that will keep a MO> history of users imput and when a problem arrives just go to the MO> file replay the history file and get through the keyscan codes, the MO> information needed to answer the question, " What did I do wrong ? " There's a program that does just that, and has been used for just that purpose. It's called Instant Replay from (I think) Nostradamus Software. Greg --- ■ SLMR 1.0ß ≈ Unicorns aren't mythical ... virgins are! ■ TNet 1.0ß ≈ Intelec(tm): Ivo Andric BBS 604-380-0297 Victoria BC Date: 07-30-90 (08:50) Number: 9143 / 9466 (Echo) To: LARRY HELBER Refer#: NONE From: GREG HEWGILL Read: NO Subj: C++ AND IOSTREAMS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) LH> infile.read((char *) data, sizeof(data)); Since data itself is a structure, you can't convert it to a char pointer. What you want to do is pass the address of data to the read function, so you would write infile.read(&data, sizeof(data)); The &data passes the address of the data structure to the read function. Greg --- ■ SLMR 1.0ß ≈ I'm sorry Dave, I can't allow you to do that. ■ TNet 1.0ß ≈ Intelec(tm): Ivo Andric BBS 604-380-0297 Victoria BC Date: 07-31-90 (19:51) Number: 9144 / 9466 (Echo) To: SCOT RANNEY Refer#: NONE From: LINUS SPHINX Read: 08-06-90 (03:06) Subj: Turbo C icky problem Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Scanf is totally useless for getting input from a user but has a myriad of uses for converting buffers, what you need to do is write your own scanf that will in a loop get one char at a time from stdin and insert it into a buffer after checking to see if the char is acceptable input and replace the last char with a null on reciept of a backspace or del. Next throw in cursor keys to cruise up and down your buffer and toss in home, end and <gasp> insert and you'll be cooking with gas in a major way. If you can't get it let me know and I'll wing you some sample code. Good luck and great code ___ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |__ |__| |__| | |\ | \_/ ___| | | | | | \| _/ \_ PCRelay:HIDEAWAY -> #443 INTELEC-NET * NorthWestern Region 4.10 Rich Hackney's HIDEAWAY BBS - (916) 961-1042 Date: 07-31-90 (19:59) Number: 9145 / 9466 (Echo) To: BRIAN GROOVER Refer#: NONE From: LINUS SPHINX Read: NO Subj: BORLAND'S TURBO C++ Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) I think it's a mass marketing scheme to convince you your old tools that produce perfectly good code are obsolete and sell a bunch of (supposedly) upgrades that do the same old thing but with a few extra bells and whistles they left out the first time for just this purpose. PCRelay:HIDEAWAY -> #443 INTELEC-NET * NorthWestern Region 4.10 Rich Hackney's HIDEAWAY BBS - (916) 961-1042 Date: 07-31-90 (11:13) Number: 9146 / 9466 (Echo) To: DENNIS EDWARDS Refer#: NONE From: GREG HEWGILL Read: 08-01-90 (09:46) Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) DE>OPTASM will do that kind of stuff for you and so your code just looks be DE>It will also squish NOPs resulting from forward referenced labels and th DE>assembler's assumed jump instruction sizes. Good product. Hey wow...somebody else out there who actually knows what OPTASM is! Good to see that there's more than just one of me. Greg --- ■ SLMR 1.0ß ≈ B4I4Q, RU/21? ■ TNet 1.0ß ≈ Intelec(tm): Ivo Andric BBS 604-380-0297 Victoria BC Date: 08-01-90 (09:47) Number: 9147 / 9466 (Echo) To: ED LINDERMAN Refer#: 9130 From: DENNIS EDWARDS Read: NO Subj: MASM JMP Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │ Thats weird... whenever I write something I never use a short jump.. I │always use `JMP label'. The file that I got the error on was under 5k. │Any ideas on what went wrong? Thanks a lot for your help. You sure the label is in the same SEGMENT as the jmp instruction? Should be OK to anywhere within 32K otherwise. --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 08-02-90 (15:36) Number: 9148 / 9466 (Echo) To: GREG HEWGILL Refer#: 9146 From: DENNIS EDWARDS Read: NO Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │DE>OPTASM will do that kind of stuff for you... │Hey wow...somebody else out there who actually knows what OPTASM is! Good │to see that there's more than just one of me. Yupper. You check out those OOP macros on their BBS, yet? --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 08-01-90 (17:11) Number: 9149 / 9466 (Echo) To: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Refer#: NONE From: GEOFFREY WAIGH Read: 08-24-90 (23:46) Subj: ^C Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) A word of warning, depending on your application, grabbing the ^C vector may not be enough. Some DOS I/O routines will spit out a ^C to your screen if they notice it on input even if they normally don't echo. If you find this happening with your program after you quash the ^C vector, then you will have to intercept vector 9 (I think) which is the keyboard handler. I don't have the source here but I can try getting it if you want. Geoffrey Waigh --- ■ RNet 1.05E: Synapse BBS - Gatineau PQ - (819) 561-5268 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 07-30-90 (00:38) Number: 9150 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: JOSHUA KEICH Read: (N/A) Subj: C AND PASCAL Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) I am looking for either a Pascal or C compiler for the Apple //. What are the major differences between the two langauges? Which is better? What standard should one look for in a C compiler? Has anyone ever heard of the K and R standard?? (That's the standard Apple Compilers use) Is it important to be able to link assembly to C? What are the pros and cons of both Pascal and C. Any help regarding C and Pascal Compilers would be appreciated. NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - Spencerport Ny (716) 352-5765 PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-328-8344 Date: 07-30-90 (05:10) Number: 9151 / 9466 (Echo) To: JOSHUA KEICH Refer#: NONE From: LARRY HELBER Read: YES Subj: C AND PASCAL Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) although I do not know much about the apple //, I do know about the differences between Pascal and C since I have to program in both regularly. I will try and answer your questions as best I can. -> are the major differences between the two langauges? Which is better? There is not better between the two. it depends on what type of progamming you plan on doing and how much experience you have already. Both C and Pascal are structured very similar, infact the learning curve between the two languages is almost non-exsistant. Pascal is a little (lot) more rigurious about type casting and the way you do things. C will let you do just about anything you want. There are good points and bad points on both sides. Pascal can be a real pain while trying to do some grass roots type of stuff, but C is EXTREAMLY frustrating for a novice user. I would cast a vote that neither one is better than the other since it is really the compiler that decides how fast and small the code is. If you are new to STRUCTURED programming then I would highly recommend that you learn Pascal FIRST. Then latter on if you have a need to, you can switch to C. -> What standard should one look for in a C compiler? Has anyone ever -> heard of the K and R standard?? (That's the standard Apple Compilers -> use) ANSI has just (finally) release the ANSI standard of C. K and R is the original version of C. Since then it has been standardised to the ANSI version. If you are looking at OOP then you should look for AT&T version of C++ (for the moment). The only time you should really worry about how standard your version of a C compiler is, is if you plan on porting your program to different compiler. Then you should be looking for an ANSI C compiler. -> it important to be able to link assembly to C? What are the pros and It is only important to link ASM files to your C files "If and ONLY IF" you plan on writting ASM soucre too. From the sounds of your message it seems that you are looking for a programmming language to learn. My bigest recommendation is to learn Pascal. You will find it MUCH easier to learn, and especially in the apple areana more supported. Once you feel that you have concered Pascal and find a need for c then and only then should you try and learn it. Chances are these are not words that you want to here since all of the glamor has been given to C latley, but you will save yourself a lot of frustration by learning Pascal first. NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - Spencerport Ny (716) 352-5765 PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-328-8344 Date: 08-01-90 (02:49) Number: 9152 / 9466 (Echo) To: GREG HEWGILL Refer#: NONE From: MOSES OLIVER Read: NO Subj: COMMENT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) > There's a program that does just that, and has been used for just > that purpose. It's called Instant Replay from (I think) Nostradamus > Software. Do you know if this Software package that you mentioned will work with any custom aplication, and how much RAM will it take ? I am quite sure that this software must be a TSR. Moses Oliver --- ■ R105J:Intelec| The Home Place BBS-L.V. 702-641-5624 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 08-02-90 (20:42) Number: 9153 / 9466 (Echo) To: TERRY SMITH Refer#: 9127 From: STEVE FOX Read: NO Subj: CXL Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) TS│over again!!! Got any printing utilities that could handle a restart? Naturally, PRNCOL31 can handle that minor problem. Also, you can fit the entire CXL docs on 21 sheets of paper printed in two columns using PRNCOL on an Epson printer. It will take a few more sheets on a LaserJet. --- ■ EZ 1.29 ■ Date: 08-02-90 (20:42) Number: 9154 / 9466 (Echo) To: ED LINDERMAN Refer#: 9130 From: STEVE FOX Read: NO Subj: MASM JMP Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) EL│ Thats weird... whenever I write something I never use a short jump.. I EL│always use `JMP label'. The file that I got the error on was under 5k. EL│Any ideas on what went wrong? Thanks a lot for your help. I'm stumped. Poverty Rock in Seattle has a MASM conference. Perhaps it's avaible on your local BBS also? --- ■ EZ 1.29 ■ Date: 08-01-90 (16:35) Number: 9155 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: RICHARD MCELROY Read: (N/A) Subj: HYPERTEXT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Does anyone know of a hypertext toolbox. Has anyone written any hypertext applications? --- ■ RNet 1.04U: CCSBoard - Emerson NJ PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 08-02-90 (03:59) Number: 9156 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: TIM KITCHEN Read: (N/A) Subj: Turbo C++ Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) How does everyone feel about Turbo C++? I just loaded it yesterday. I like the new IDE, but have had problems with the editor. Mostly when copying from a buffer. The thing just locks up. This is very annoying. Other than that, things are just ducky. I re-compiled some things from the 2.0 and got slightly smaller code, plus about 115 warnings for ANSI violations. Guess I should look at those function prototypes again, huh? Stuff compiled first time, after rearranging the environment to use large model and redoing all of my project files. Anyway, I still haven't got around to using any of the C++ functions. Maybe someday. PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-328-8344 Date: 08-02-90 (14:54) Number: 9157 / 9466 (Echo) To: LINUS SPHINX Refer#: NONE From: DAVID FOX Read: NO Subj: BORLAND'S TURBO C++ Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) LS»│I think it's a mass marketing scheme to convince you your old │tools that produce perfectly good code are obsolete and sell a │bunch of (supposedly) upgrades that do the same old thing but with │a few extra bells and whistles they left out the first time for │just this purpose. │ ╘ ═ I must disagree. If the Borland programming team had the programming technology to come up with Turbo C++ a few years ago, they would have done it. A lot of programming work goes into something like Turbo C++, believe me. They are using programming technologies that are horrendously difficult to program and debug in the first place, and thankfully we have such technology today, and not a year or two from now. --- ■ SM 0.81ß Trial ■ <- Coming to a BBS near you soon! ■ R105J:Intelec Net ■ The Higher Powered BBS ■ Sunnyvale, CA ■ 408-737-9447 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 08-03-90 (11:31) Number: 9158 / 9466 (Echo) To: MOSES OLIVER Refer#: NONE From: GREG HEWGILL Read: NO Subj: COMMENT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) MO>> There's a program that does just that, and has been used for just MO>> that purpose. It's called Instant Replay from (I think) Nostradamus MO>> Software. MO> MO> Do you know if this Software package that you mentioned will MO> work with any custom aplication, and how much RAM will it take ? MO> I am quite sure that this software must be a TSR. I can't remember how much RAM it takes (been a couple of years since I did anything with it), and yes it is a TSR. All it does is record keystrokes, so it will work with any application (the system I was using it for was a demo for an accounting database program written in FoxPLUS). Greg --- ■ SLMR 1.0ß ≈ Which is the non-smoking lifeboat? ■ TNet 1.0ß ≈ Intelec(tm): Ivo Andric BBS 604-380-0297 Victoria BC Date: 08-03-90 (11:51) Number: 9159 / 9466 (Echo) To: DENNIS EDWARDS Refer#: NONE From: GREG HEWGILL Read: 08-07-90 (11:06) Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) DE>You check out those OOP macros on their BBS, yet? No, I've never called SLR's BBS. What sort of macros are they? Are they for interfacing with TP5.5 or TC++ or something? Or are they straight asm OOP stuff? I'm interested... Greg --- ■ SLMR 1.0ß ≈ Every silver lining has a dark cloud. ■ TNet 1.0ß ≈ Intelec(tm): Ivo Andric BBS 604-380-0297 Victoria BC Date: 08-03-90 (21:51) Number: 9160 / 9466 (Echo) To: RICHARD MCELROY Refer#: 9155 From: STEVE FOX Read: NO Subj: HYPERTEXT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) RM│Does anyone know of a hypertext toolbox. RM│Has anyone written any hypertext applications? CXL's help functions act sorta like hypertext, if I understand hypertext correctly. --- ■ EZ 1.29 ■ Date: 08-03-90 (09:32) Number: 9161 / 9466 (Echo) To: JOSHUA KEICH Refer#: NONE From: DAVID FOX Read: NO Subj: C AND PASCAL Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) JK»│I am looking for either a Pascal or C compiler for the Apple //. │What are the major differences between the two langauges? Which is │better? What standard should one look for in a C compiler? Has │anyone ever heard of the K and R standard?? (That's the standard │Apple Compilers use) Is it important to be able to link assembly │to C? What are the pros and cons of both Pascal and C. Any help │regarding C and Pascal Compilers would be appreciated. │ ╘ ═ I may be able to offer some suggestions, but I don't know apple // at all. I tend to think of C as better than pascal as it lets you get closer to the hardware and gives you more freedom to express yourself. Also, most Pascals for the apple // (if I remember correctly) generate an intermediate code that is interpreted, and the C would generate native 6502 code. Thus C would be generally faster. The K&R standard is an older one (most PC compilers are ANSI standard now) and is essentially the C language as described by the two authors of the "C Programming Language" book, Brian Kernighan and Dennis Ritchie (hence the K&R). Whether you want to be able to link assembly in C is up to you. For me, I find it desirable. It's not something as necessary as assembly in Basic programs, since C is a compiled language, though. --- ■ SM 0.81ß Trial ■ <- Coming to a BBS near you soon! ■ R105J:Intelec Net ■ The Higher Powered BBS ■ Sunnyvale, CA ■ 408-737-9447 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 08-03-90 (17:36) Number: 9163 / 9466 (Echo) To: DENNIS EDWARDS Refer#: 9141 From: RICKIE BELITZ Read: 08-07-90 (11:06) Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) -> OPTASM will do that kind of stuff for you and so your code just looks -> better. It will also squish NOPs resulting from forward referenced -> labels and the assembler's assumed jump instruction sizes. Good product. OPTASM is not a good product... IT is a GREAT product. I've used it since the 1st release. All MASM is good for is creating bald headed people.. :) NET/Mail : Intelec (tm) Data-Comp BBS (615) 982-6512/37 *Hayes 9600V* PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 08-02-90 (22:56) Number: 9164 / 9466 (Echo) To: TIM KITCHEN Refer#: 9156 From: LARRY HELBER Read: NO Subj: TURBO C++ Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) -> How does everyone feel about Turbo C++? I just loaded it yesterday. I have been using it since it first came out. The more I use it the happier I get. I prefer Brief and its template editing over most any other editor on the market so I do what ever I can to stay with it. I originaly would use DESQview and open a window for Brief and another one for the command line compiler. I finaly got around to installing Brief into Turbo C++ IDE and am very surprised. It handles all of the file management for me and will let me know if I changed a file and asks to reload it. (this could be frusatrating while debuging doing it the DV way since I would forget to save/reload once in a while). The OOP part of C++ is a little difficult to get used to code in and their not many books out on the subject yet. I really like the extra features that it provides. I am not too crazy about C++ not being so leanient on breaking the rules. (as you noticed on your latest compile) NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - NEW PHONE! ->>> 716 594-1804 <<<- PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-328-8344 Date: 08-05-90 (02:31) Number: 9165 / 9466 (Echo) To: GEOFFREY WAIGH Refer#: 9149 From: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Read: NO Subj: ^C Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) GW│A word of warning, depending on your application, grabbing the ^C │vector may not be enough. Some DOS I/O routines will spit out a ^C │to your screen if they notice it on input even if they normally don't │echo. If you find this happening with your program after you quash │the ^C vector, then you will have to intercept vector 9 (I think) │which is the keyboard handler. I don't have the source here but I │can try getting it if you want. True. Actually, this ^C must be caught in the program that compiled with High_C and runs under Phar-Lap in protected mode. 95% of the times it nicely ignores ^C, but in the remaining cases it just screws up. Janos --- ■ EZ 1.27 ■ Date: 08-05-90 (02:31) Number: 9166 / 9466 (Echo) To: STEVE FOX Refer#: 9154 From: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Read: 08-06-90 (10:30) Subj: MASM JMP Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │Poverty Rock in Seattle has a MASM conference. Where? (I just scanned BLT-#3 and I found no such conference.) Janos --- ■ EZ 1.27 ■ Date: 08-05-90 (02:32) Number: 9167 / 9466 (Echo) To: RICKIE BELITZ Refer#: 9163 From: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Read: NO Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) RB│ OPTASM is not a good product... IT is a GREAT product. I've used i │since the 1st release. All MASM is good for is creating bald headed │people.. :) What's the difference between OPTASM and the new TASM? According to Borland's flyer, TASM 2.0 does some optimizing. Janos --- ■ EZ 1.27 ■ Date: 08-05-90 (08:07) Number: 9168 / 9466 (Echo) To: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Refer#: 9166 From: RICK KUNZ Read: 08-24-90 (23:46) Subj: MASM JMP Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) > To: STEVE FOX Refer#: 9154 > │Poverty Rock in Seattle has a MASM conference. >Where? >(I just scanned BLT-#3 and I found no such conference.) We _used_ to have a MASM conference; it was eliminated for lack of participation. Intelec's old MASM conference was more or less combined into this general programming conference. Date: 08-01-90 (07:24) Number: 9169 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: SUSAN ELSEA Read: (N/A) Subj: PASCAL 5.5 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) I have a very simple question. Is is possible to use a mouse with Turbo PASCAL version 5.5? And if so, how do I go about doing this?? Thanks! Susan. NET/Mail : Intelec(tm)-Another Dimension-Winchester, VA (703) 667-3530 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 08-04-90 (14:20) Number: 9170 / 9466 (Echo) To: SUSAN ELSEA Refer#: NONE From: PATRICK MILLER Read: NO Subj: PASCAL 5.5 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) >I have a very simple question. Is is possible to use a mouse with Turb >PASCAL version 5.5? And if so, how do I go about doing this?? Do you want to use the mouse in the programming environment or in your programs? Patrick NET/Mail : Intelec(tm)-Another Dimension-Winchester, VA (703) 667-3530 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 08-04-90 (21:20) Number: 9171 / 9466 (Echo) To: STEVE FOX Refer#: NONE From: RICHARD MCELROY Read: 08-06-90 (10:30) Subj: HYPERTEXT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Steve: I'm looking for something that will allow for linking text to an object. In other words - I want to mimic an intuitive thought process. If you use an expert system shell to develop help systems they tend to be un-intuitive. They just don't allow a user to follow their line of reasoning. I think that with a hypertext application that allows the user to create their own links the system would tailor itself to the user. --- ■ RNet 1.04U: CCSBoard - Emerson NJ PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 08-06-90 (12:16) Number: 9172 / 9466 (Echo) To: RICHARD MCELROY Refer#: 9171 From: STEVE FOX Read: NO Subj: HYPERTEXT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) RM│I'm looking for something that will allow for linking text to an object. RM│In other words - I want to mimic an intuitive thought process. If you You're beyond the feeble scope of my knowledge. Perhaps an "expert" can respond. --- ■ EZ 1.29 ■ Date: 08-07-90 (10:47) Number: 9173 / 9466 (Echo) To: LINUS SPHINX Refer#: 9144 From: SCOT RANNEY Read: NO Subj: Turbo C icky problem Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) I shall work on the scanf thing, thanks! Most likely I'll also be getting back to you about hints here and there, of course. ;] --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 08-06-90 (18:44) Number: 9174 / 9466 (Echo) To: STEVE FOX Refer#: NONE From: TERRY SMITH Read: 08-08-90 (18:22) Subj: CXL Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Steve... Thanks for the information. Now I need only find the file, and give it a try. Thanks again for your information... . ---Terry Smith --- ■ R105J:Intelec| The Home Place BBS-L.V. 702-641-5624 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 08-06-90 (19:01) Number: 9175 / 9466 (Echo) To: LINUS SPHINX Refer#: NONE From: RICHARD HANSEN Read: NO Subj: Turbo C icky problem Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Linus... I'm new to C as well and have already had my own run in with scanf. I've been toying with the idea of writing my own scanf for a while but have not got down to serious business yet ( ther just doesn't seem to be enough time in my life anymore!). If you do happen to send Scot some sample code, could I entice you somehow to send it my way as well? I'm using Quick C but I understand that most out there are using TC. Is it that much better and/or easier? I'd appreciate any help or advice you wish to give. <RICHARD W. HANSEN> --- ■ EZ 1.29 ■ X ■ R105J:Intelec| The Home Place BBS-L.V. 702-641-5624 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 08-06-90 (22:22) Number: 9176 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: JOSHUA KEICH Read: (N/A) Subj: DIMENSIONING ARRAYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) When programming in BASIC with many similar variables, I like to dimension an array as it saves space. The problem I am having is that if the dimensioned array is read from within a FOR-NEXT LOOP the programme will crash when X is greather then 10. Here is part of the code. 10 DIM E(100) 20 FOR X=0 TO 100 30 ? E(X) 40 NEXT X 50 END This should print all the values stored in the array E. When X=11 then I get a ?BAD SUBSCRIPT ERROR. Any ideas as to what is going wrong? NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - NEW PHONE! ->>> 716 594-1804 <<<- PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-07-90 (02:53) Number: 9177 / 9466 (Echo) To: JOSHUA KEICH Refer#: NONE From: LARRY HELBER Read: NO Subj: DIMENSIONING ARRAYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) -> This should print all the values stored in the array E. When X=11 -> then I get a ?BAD SUBSCRIPT ERROR. Any ideas as to what is going -> wrong? I just tried it in my version of GW-BASIC and it runs as it should. YOur source looks correct. What version/form of BASIC are you using? NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - NEW PHONE! ->>> 716 594-1804 <<<- PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-07-90 (08:29) Number: 9178 / 9466 (Echo) To: JOSHUA KEICH Refer#: NONE From: STEVE SHANKER Read: NO Subj: DIMENSIONING ARRAYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) JK> 10 DIM E(100) JK> 20 FOR X=0 TO 100 JK> 30 ? E(X) JK> 40 NEXT X JK> 50 END JK> This should print all the values stored in the array E. When X=11 JK> get a ?BAD SUBSCRIPT ERROR. Any ideas as to what is going wrong? Hmm, I tried your identical program as above and no problem. (using GW) Of course, your program as shown here doesn't do anything. The answers (E(x) with x going from 0 to 100) must all be zero as you haven't defined them as anything. I took the liberty of changing it to what I think you wanted and it runs just fine. Here is the change. 10 DIM E(100) 20 FOR X=0 TO 100 30 E(X)=X 40 NEXT X 50 FOR Y=0 TO 100 60 PRINT E(Y) 70 NEXT Y 80 END In this case, the first loop(20->40) loads the array, the second loop (50->70) prints it out just fine. Let me know how you make out. Steve -> MegaMail v2.00 #0:"Wipes & lights": Mario's brainstorm for '91 NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - NEW PHONE! ->>> 716 594-1804 <<<- PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-07-90 (08:52) Number: 9179 / 9466 (Echo) To: STEVE SHANKER Refer#: NONE From: LARRY HELBER Read: NO Subj: DIMENSIONING ARRAYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Steve after all that hype about BASIC being a structured language an you posted something like that? Shouldn't it look like- 10 DIM E(100) 20 FOR X=0 TO 100 30 E(X)=X 40 NEXT X 50 FOR Y=0 TO 100 60 PRINT E(Y) 70 NEXT Y 80 END Makes the code easier to read ;-) NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - NEW PHONE! ->>> 716 594-1804 <<<- PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-08-90 (12:09) Number: 9180 / 9466 (Echo) To: JOSHUA KEICH Refer#: 9176 From: BRUCE KROBUSEK Read: NO Subj: DIMENSIONING ARRAYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) JK>10 DIM E(100) JK>20 FOR X=0 TO 100 JK>30 ? E(X) JK>40 NEXT X JK>50 END Maybe I've been programming in C too long, but.... You are dimensioning an array to be 100 elemnts in size (line 10), but in line 20 your FOR loop actually runs for 101 elements. Line 20 *should* read: 20 FOR X=0 TO 99 Actually, the FOR loop values will depend on whether your arrays start with element 0 or 1. That certainly doesn't explain the error you've been seeing, but this bug may come back to bite you sometime in the future. - BAK - 8/8/90 --- ■ EZ 1.32 #1085 ■ CoSysOp - Data Comm 716-271-6582 PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-08-90 (14:28) Number: 9181 / 9466 (Echo) To: LARRY Refer#: NONE From: DAVE SMITH Read: NO Subj: FIRST LOGIN.... Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Larry, This is my first login (as promised from VBBS), and I'm REALLY impressed at what I see. I'm looking for a SINGLE RPN calculator program, and what do I find -- no less than three (count 'em) programs, along with a calculus calculator program that looks very interesting. This may seem odd to others reading this, but I get really excited when I get timely answers to inquiries, and they're the answers I'm looking for!! The files I'm interested in are: BCALC, HPCALC, XACT16, and CCALC .ZIP files (and their source archives where applicable). I really like the format of the BBS, but I'm growing a little tired of the screen repaint after each command. I assume that when I switch to eXpert mode, this goes away. Is this the case?? I notice that you have access to national conferences.... How are these accessed, and what network are they forwarded on?? Is there a file out there someplace that will fill me in on these details?? I tried to "join" a bunch of conferences, but my access seemed to be limited. Time is waning on this login.... Goto go.... Thanks again, Larry!!! Dave NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - NEW PHONE! ->>> 716 594-1804 <<<- PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-08-90 (19:28) Number: 9182 / 9466 (Echo) To: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Refer#: 9167 From: RICKIE BELITZ Read: 08-24-90 (23:47) Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) -> What's the difference between OPTASM and the new TASM? According to I have no idea since I have never used TASM and don't plan to. -> According to Borland's flyer, TASM 2.0 does some optimizing. Interesting. I have never saw an optimizing assembler. There are a few things that Optasm will do for you. For instance if you had an instruction to LEA of some variable's address, Optasm may change it to MOV OFFSET of the variable address depending on which segment the variable was located in. The reason it does that is LEA is slightly slower but in some cases you have to use it. You can tell Optasm to not mess with it. I guess you could call that some form of optimizing. NET/Mail : Intelec (tm) Data-Comp BBS (615) 982-6512/37 *Hayes 9600V* PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 08-10-90 (05:36) Number: 9183 / 9466 (Echo) To: RICHARD MCELROY Refer#: 9171 From: DENNIS EDWARDS Read: NO Subj: HYPERTEXT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │I'm looking for something that will allow for linking text to an object. Assuming your using C you might want to check a package called FlexLists. It allows lists, queues, stacks, etc. of arbitrary stuff and as a demo they include a hypertext user's manual - which you can call programs from via a hypertext link (something I think is unique). Also, there was a DDJ edition a couple months back that focused on this topic. If you want the whole thing in a can, a company called ACI makes one system. I don't know anything more about it except that the MultiEdit editor uses it for the on line docs - you may have access to a demo of the editor on your local BBS. --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 08-10-90 (05:36) Number: 9184 / 9466 (Echo) To: GREG HEWGILL Refer#: 9159 From: DENNIS EDWARDS Read: NO Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │DE>You check out those OOP macros on their BBS, yet? │No, I've never called SLR's BBS. What sort of macros are they? Are they │for interfacing with TP5.5 or TC++ or something? Or are they straight asm │OOP stuff? I'm interested... They provide a way to do static objects, complete with constructors and destructors in "disposable" segments (for TSRs). The macros themselves are extraordinarily complicated but the way you use them is pretty straight forward. They were distributed as part of an article in (I think) the July Computer Language mag. I haven't had time to look at them closely enough to see what kind of a chore it would be interface them with HLLs: I don't think the guy that wrote them worried a whole bunch about that aspect of them, however. Still, recommended. They are here on Poverty Rock which is a little closer to you. --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 08-10-90 (05:36) Number: 9185 / 9466 (Echo) To: RICKIE BELITZ Refer#: 9163 From: DENNIS EDWARDS Read: NO Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │ OPTASM is not a good product... IT is a GREAT product. I've used it │since the 1st release. All MASM is good for is creating bald headed │people.. :) I must admit, I enjoy the extra time it gives me for coffee breaks. --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 08-09-90 (01:41) Number: 9186 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: TIM KITCHEN Read: (N/A) Subj: Printer Access Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) I have what I hope is a trivial question. How do you deal with printers from within C? Specifically, how do I send output to the current printer device in MS DOS. Does stdprn map directly to the Parallel port or can it map to LPT1, LPT2, etc? How do I access LPT1 etc? Can I open these devices as a normal character output device using fopen()? I have an application that needs to print to several different types of printers, both networked and local. PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-09-90 (18:43) Number: 9187 / 9466 (Echo) To: JOSHUA KEICH Refer#: NONE From: TODD LOWPENSKY Read: NO Subj: DIMENSIONING ARRAYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) JK>This should print all the values stored in the array E. When X=11 then I JK>get a ?BAD SUBSCRIPT ERROR. Any ideas as to what is going wrong? I think that I remember some qwerk like this in some versions of Basic. For some reason I think that the interpreter runs through the For-Next loop one last time with X=101 even if it doesn't actually execute the code. If you check, and print x after you run this program, I think X will equal 101. Try changing the DIM statement to DIM E(101). Hope this helps. Good Luck. -Todd- ■ R105G: Intelec Net ■ Toad Hall BBS ■ San Carlos, Ca ■ 415-595-2427 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 08-10-90 (21:11) Number: 9188 / 9466 (Echo) To: TIM KITCHEN Refer#: 9186 From: STEVE FOX Read: NO Subj: Printer Access Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) TK│I have what I hope is a trivial question. How do you deal with printers TK│from within C? Specifically, how do I send output to the current TK│printer device in MS DOS. Does stdprn map directly to the Parallel port TK│or can it map to LPT1, LPT2, etc? How do I access LPT1 etc? Can I open TK│these devices as a normal character output device using fopen()? One way is as you mention - use fopen( "PRN", "w"). You can substitute LPT1, COM1, CON, NUL, or almost any other standard DOS filename for PRN. PRN is defined by DOS using the MODE command, and can be mapped to LPT1 or COM1, etc. If you are doing some really tricky stuff, you may want to change the "w" to "wb" or "wt". --- ■ EZ 1.29 ■ Use PRNCOL to print your doc files. Date: 08-10-90 (15:39) Number: 9189 / 9466 (Echo) To: DENNIS EDWARDS Refer#: 9124 From: STEVEN ZASSMAN Read: 08-13-90 (06:23) Subj: Find free memory Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) SZ>│I am trying to write a function which will return the amount of memory SZ>│available, similar to CHKDSK.COM. DE> DE> DE> mov ah, 50h ; get current PSP from DOS DE> int 21h DE> mov es, bx ; returned in BX put in ES DE> mov bx, 2 ; get paras remaining from PSP DE> mov ax, es:[bx] ; into AX (AX *16 = bytes free) DE> Thanks Dennis. This was exactly what I needed. --- ■ EZ 1.32 ■ PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 08-10-90 (15:41) Number: 9190 / 9466 (Echo) To: BRUCE KROBUSEK Refer#: NONE From: DAVID FOX Read: NO Subj: DIMENSIONING ARRAYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) ══════╡Friday, 10 August╞══════ BK┤Maybe I've been programming in C too long, but.... │ │You are dimensioning an array to be 100 elemnts in size (line 10), but │in line 20 your FOR loop actually runs for 101 elements. Line 20 │*should* read: Actually, you're right, even if you're too into C. Like C, most MS-Basics like GW-Basic dimension their arrays starting at 0 just like C does, although 'official' Basic arrays start at 1. And there are other bizarre Basics like the one for the TI-99 that have a statement to change the base from 0 to 1. (I guess that is reminiscent of Index Origin in APL). Interestingly enough, when I was using Basic (a few years ago) I was more comfortable just beginning at 1 even though other people said 'why not begin at 0 - you'll be more memory efficient.' Now that I've been used to C, I'd probably go with starting my arrays at 0 if I were to do some programming in Basic. --- ■ EZ 1.33 ■ DOS is to OS/2 as a bicycle is to a MackTruck ■ R105L:Intelec Net ■ The Higher Powered BBS ■ Sunnyvale, CA ■ 408-737-9447 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 08-10-90 (15:41) Number: 9191 / 9466 (Echo) To: DAVE SMITH Refer#: NONE From: DAVID FOX Read: NO Subj: FIRST LOGIN.... Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) ══════╡Friday, 10 August╞══════ DS┤I notice that you have access to national conferences.... How are these │accessed, and what network are they forwarded on?? Is there a file out │there someplace that will fill me in on these details?? I tried to │"join" a bunch of conferences, but my access seemed to be limited. So do you - isn't that amazing!!! ? On most bbses with this ability, everything besides the Main Board is an echoed conference... your message gets echoed unless you say NO to Echo Message? in PC-Board's message entry system. These national conferences are a wealth of information sometimes. I suggest you get EZ-Reader (latest is 1.33) and (if you haven't got one) an editor such as Qedit, and do your replying off-line, which will let you give more thought to message entry and not tie up valuable time on BBSes. Also, if your message is strictly for only a user on your bbs, I suggest placing the message in Main Board. --- ■ EZ 1.33 ■ Running Windows is better than washing them ■ R105L:Intelec Net ■ The Higher Powered BBS ■ Sunnyvale, CA ■ 408-737-9447 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network, Freeport, NY 4.10ß15 PCRelay/Rnet/Qnet/NetMail and the best users! Date: 08-10-90 (10:26) Number: 9192 / 9466 (Echo) To: JOSHUA KEICH Refer#: 9176 From: DAVE JOHNSON Read: NO Subj: DIMENSIONING ARRAYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) >This should print all the values stored in the array E. When X=11 then I >get a ?BAD SUBSCRIPT ERROR. Any ideas as to what is going wrong? Basic will usually DIMension an array for 10 elements if you do not specifically DIMension it. This is probably the problem you are having. Try DIMensioning the array before you go to use it. Like this: DIM E(100) Good Luck. --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ 186,282mps:Not just a good idea.It's the law! PCRelay:STARFND -> #510 Starfinder I * Renton WA * 206-277-1689 4.10 Date: 08-08-90 (08:31) Number: 9193 / 9466 (Echo) To: LARRY HELBER Refer#: 9179 From: ERIK SEIELSTAD Read: YES Subj: DIMENSIONING ARRAYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) > Steve after all that hype about BASIC being a structured language an > posted something like that? Shouldn't it look like- Larry, programming is an art. You can't just willie-nillie go and change the form of the program...but since you started it I prefer: 9 REM Define Array E 10 DIM E(100) 19 REM Initialize Array 20 FOR X=0 TO 100: E(X)=X : NEXT X 29 REM Display Array 30 FOR Y=0 TO 100: PRINT E(Y) : NEXT Y 39 REM Close up shop 40 END <grin> --Erik Seielstad -> MegaMail v2.00 #0:One if by lan, two if by C - Paul Revere??? NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - NEW PHONE! ->>> 716 594-1804 <<<- PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-08-90 (09:56) Number: 9194 / 9466 (Echo) To: LARRY HELBER Refer#: 9179 From: STEVE SHANKER Read: YES Subj: DIMENSIONING ARRAYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) LH> Steve after all that hype about BASIC being a structured language LH> posted something like that? Shouldn't it look like- LH> 10 DIM E(100) LH> 20 FOR X=0 TO 100 LH> 30 E(X)=X LH> 40 NEXT X LH> 50 FOR Y=0 TO 100 LH> 60 PRINT E(Y) LH> 70 NEXT Y LH> 80 END LH> Makes the code easier to read ;-) That only goes you are programming in QB <grin>, then it would read. ----------------------- DIM e(100) | | DO: | e(x) = x | x = x + 1 | LOOP UNTIL x = 100 | I just couldn't resist ya know!!! | DO: | PRINT e(y) | y = y + 1 | LOOP UNTIL y = 100 | | END | ----------------------- -> MegaMail v2.00 #0:"Wipes & lights": Mario's brainstorm for '91 NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - NEW PHONE! ->>> 716 594-1804 <<<- PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-09-90 (08:55) Number: 9195 / 9466 (Echo) To: BRUCE KROBUSEK Refer#: 9180 From: STEVE SHANKER Read: YES Subj: DIMENSIONING ARRAYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) BK> Actually, the FOR loop values will depend on whether your arrays s BK> with element 0 or 1. BK> BK> That certainly doesn't explain the error you've been seeing, but t BK> bug may come back to bite you sometime in the future. BK> Woops, you are right. Both Larry and I missed it. That is exactly what 'Subscript out of range' means. It should have either been 0 to 99 or 1 to 100 using the OPTION BASE 1 command. But also, in either case, the program wouldn't do anything as nothing was ever loaded into the array which is where I was coming from. You spotted it faster cause you are used to the 0 based C and FOR SHAME LARRY, you missed it. I'll just claim oversight since I most always use the OPTION BASE in QB and most of the time program in FORTRAN which uses 1. -> MegaMail v2.00 #0:"Wipes & lights": Mario's brainstorm for '91 NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - NEW PHONE! ->>> 716 594-1804 <<<- PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-09-90 (08:59) Number: 9196 / 9466 (Echo) To: ERIK SEIELSTAD Refer#: NONE From: STEVE SHANKER Read: NO Subj: DIMENSIONING ARRAYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) ES> 9 REM Define Array E ES> 10 DIM E(100) ES> 19 REM Initialize Array ES> 20 FOR X=0 TO 100: E(X)=X : NEXT X ES> 29 REM Display Array ES> 30 FOR Y=0 TO 100: PRINT E(Y) : NEXT Y ES> 39 REM Close up shop ES> 40 END BAD PROGRAMMING STRUCTURE. While the language supports multi command line programming, you will seldom see a PROFESSIONAL PROGRAMMER using it as it makes for very poor reading and debugging. Also, the use of REM is virtually extinct. Most BASIC types use the mneumonic (sp) command instead. ie, instead of using 39 REM Close up shop 39 ' Close up shop I think I got side tracked yesterday and meant to give you my version of the structure. Here it is now if I missed it. (including the corrections in my previous note and your comments.) ------------------------ ' declarations | OPTION BASE 1 | DIM e(100) | | ' initialize array | DO | x = x + 1 | e(x) = x | LOOP UNTIL x = 100 | | ' display array | DO | y = y + 1 | PRINT e(y) | LOOP UNTIL y = 100 | | ' close up shop | END | ------------------------ This, of course was in QuickBASIC. A simpler method of doing the exact same thing is as follows. Before you tell me I didn't initialize 'x', it is because the default value at the beginning of any BASIC is zero, I will in the next example though make everything simpler and complete. ------------------------------ ' declarations | OPTION BASE 1 | DIM e(100) | | CLEAR | | ' initialize & display array | DO | x = x + 1 | e(x) = x | PRINT e(x) | LOOP UNTIL x = 100 | | ' close up shop | END | ------------------------------ Now if the original person with the question isn't confused, I guess he never will be. <<grin>> Seriously though, this is a great example of just a few of the different ways to accomplish the exact same job. One good reason for using the DO loop instead of the FOR/NEXT is speed. The DO loop will terminate with the LOOP statement the way I have it set up here. A FOR/NEXT depends on the BASIC. Some BASICs will terminate on the NEXT, some will go back to the FOR before jumping out. This can cause MAJOR problems in some programs that use the value of the loop counter if the program is set up to jump out of the loop. BTW, a DO may be set to terminate at the bottom (as in the program above), it may terminate at the top: DO UNTIL X = 100 x = x + 1 LOOP And the third form is a forever type loop where it cycles almost indefinatly until something internal kicks you out of the loop. CONST TRUE = 10, FALSE = NOT TRUE ten = 10 DO Input ; "How many pennies in a dime"; pennies LOOP UNTIL pennies MegaMail -> Warning, Message Truncated! NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - NEW PHONE! ->>> 716 594-1804 <<<- PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-12-90 (12:21) Number: 9197 / 9466 (Echo) To: RICHARD HANSEN Refer#: 9175 From: SCOT RANNEY Read: NO Subj: Turbo C icky problem Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) About Quick-C and TC. I only used QuickC once (I'm also a beginning programmer) and thought it was pretty good. But then I used TC and thought it was great. I think this is mainly (for my case) because of the integrated environment... I suppose generally, C is C and what you can do with TC you can also do with QuickC... a personal choice, I guess. --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 08-12-90 (16:49) Number: 9198 / 9466 (Echo) To: DAVID FOX Refer#: 9190 From: ORRIN EDWARDS Read: NO Subj: DIMENSIONING ARRAYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) DF>like C does, although 'official' Basic arrays start at 1. And there What is "official" Basic. I've been programing in Basic since the days of time-share 10 cps tty's and I can't remember any that had arrays that started at 1. DF>are other bizarre Basics like the one for the TI-99 that have a DF>statement to change the base from 0 to 1. (I guess that is DF>reminiscent of Index Origin in APL). What is so bizarre about the ability to change the array base? Many basics I have used incorporate this option including Microsoft QuickBasic with either the OPTION BASE statement or with the DIM TO structure, e.g. DIM A(-5 TO 10) which even allows negative subscripts. The OPTION BASE statement also exists in the IBM Basic Interpreter and in GW-Basic. Orrin --- ■ EZ 1.29 #994 ■ ...if you read this you wasted 10 seconds! PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-13-90 (06:24) Number: 9199 / 9466 (Echo) To: RICKIE BELITZ Refer#: 9182 From: DENNIS EDWARDS Read: NO Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │-> According to Borland's flyer, TASM 2.0 does some optimizing. │ Interesting. I have never saw an optimizing assembler. There are a │few things that Optasm will do for you. For instance... Doncha remember when OA first came out - they were advertising it as an optimising assembler for the NOP squish and instruction substitution capabilities you site. Probably due to the attitude of crusty ASM types such as yourself [:-)], they dropped that line. Borland still thinks its good TYPE, I guess. --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 08-13-90 (06:24) Number: 9200 / 9466 (Echo) To: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Refer#: 9182 From: DENNIS EDWARDS Read: 08-24-90 (23:48) Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │-> What's the difference between OPTASM and the new TASM? According to I haven't tried the new TA yet. Its sitting in a large box in the living room along with all the othe TC++ pro manuals. Hacker TV. My hard disk is filled up with sniveling GUI DTP junk right now but I should be able to wipe that stuff soon and get down to something interesting. Anyway, here is a little deal that illustrates one difference between the last version of TA and OA: It is sometimes a nice thing (when writing CODE that can be used with different memory models) to be able to use macros that allocate pointers: far_ptr MACRO name, segment, sval, offset, oval %name% label dword %name%_offs dw oval %name%_segm dw sval ENDM near_ptr MACRO name, offset, oval %name% dw oval ENDM There is a rather ugly MACRO than you can then use to determine the assembler type and the currently specified memory model. With this information you can then write yet other macros that allocate either a 2 or 4 byte ptr that can be symbolically referenced in a uniform way using still other macros within the body of the CODE. Big deal. The problem comes in when you try to use these deals in STRUCs. TASM allows nested strucs but didn't process macros inside strucs. I changed the macros to build string EQUs that did work with TA - but it got very confused if anything was forward referenced and (while it didn't _say_ so) it also suffered phase errors in these situations, saying "Symbol is already defined". When accessing the presumably allocated data in the body of the CODE it generated "Reference to undefined symbol" errors (or something like that). The latter is a very strange thing to see in a "fast, single pass assembler" but there you go. MASM neither evaluates macros or EQUs in strucs nor allows nested strucs and so barfs up "phase errors" when you try to do this sort of thing. End of MASM. While OPTASM doesn't allow nested strucs it did happily expand the MACROs inside any STRUCs. And, more importantly, it processed the macros used to access the data reliably. I have used Borland's HLLs for the last couple years and find the TPASCAL .Model directive one of the primary draws to TA. Consequently, I sent a copy of the macros to Borland: A couple months later I got a letter from them saying some weird thing like "The new TASM fixes all the problems. In all other instances it generates the same errors as MASM.". However uncharacteristically, they also included an advertisement for TA 2.0. So what is a guy to think about this obscure stuff? Maybe nothing. Lots of guys don't do MACROs and get along OK. And there are ways to get around this problem with conditional compilation directives: I just think they're ugly and hard to maintain so I was trying to figure a better way to package the same information. Which, obviously, didn't work very well - except with OA. Borland's tech report might give you one hint; SLR runs its own BBS for OA support but I've only had reason to use it once (quick bug resolution). Lots of guys who use OPTASM will look at you sideways if you even mention another assembler. When they do this you can turn your head the opposite way and they'll be upside down; but they do bring up some good points. There ain't many bugs in OA and those that are known are soon fixed. It has, bar none, the best MACRO processor of any assembler I've used. In the Age Of OOP, this is not a bad thing. You can save maybe one or two percent on executable size just by eliminating NOPs; execution is improved more appreciably since 2 NOPS takes the same time as 3 reg-reg SUB, ADD, OR etc. instructions on a 286 or later (these instructions each take the same time on 8088/6). And, in the case of MASM and TA <2.0, there is always at least one NOP following any jump w/in ±127 bytes that is not declared SHORT. Coding a JMP SHORT to anything farther than ±127 byte will, of course, generate an "operand out of range" error. Under certain conditions you can end up with 2 or 3 of these following a JMP instruction (_NEVER_ use the JUMPS directive with TA <2.0 as it assumes FAR jumps when you do). OA has a fair amount of support for HLLs - though not nearly as much as the new TA. BTW, TA finally (appearently) allows mixed language conventions w/in a module so you can pass ARGs in regs to the subroutines of PROCs called from an HLL and still package those subroutines as PROCs within the native syntax of the assembler w/out the obnoxious establishment of a stack frame. People code in assember to control the code generation precisely, after all, and I find this latter behaviour from an assembler repulsive. It should _only_ generate a stack frame if an ARGs or LOCALs list appears on the comman line. OA has SOFT EXTERNs instead of GLOBALs. OA can generate SYMDEB and CodeView but not TD specific debug info. The new multipass design of TA 2.0 and its superior HLL support may make it more desirable than OA if you just write subs for HLLs. But I suspect that, when run through its paces, the MACRO processor will prove inadequate for OOP work and similarly bizare things I tend to try. As always, what you use should depend on what do. I will, I'm sure, still end up using both - but then that's what MAKE and .BAT files are for. --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 08-12-90 (14:12) Number: 9201 / 9466 (Echo) To: STEVE SHANKER Refer#: NONE From: DAVID FOX Read: NO Subj: DIMENSIONING ARRAYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) ══════╡Sunday, 12 August╞══════ SS┤BAD PROGRAMMING STRUCTURE. While the language supports multi │command line programming, you will seldom see a PROFESSIONAL │PROGRAMMER using it as it makes for very poor reading and │debugging. Also, the use of REM is virtually extinct. Most BASIC │types use the mneumonic (sp) command instead. ie, instead of │using │39 REM Close up shop │39 ' Close up shop It may be bad structure nowadays, but it was absolutely essential to use multiple statements per line back in the days of writing Basic on things like TRS-80s. In fact, I spent many, many hours in TRS-80 user groups at the feet of professional programmers and they told me I better write as tersely as possible or my programs would be much too slow and eat too much memory. I also learned a very large bag of tricks on just how to squeeze every ounce of performance possible out of the TSR-80 Basic interpreter; many of the techniques, if used today would be considered extremely bad programming practice - like embedding machine code in strings, for example. But, these things were necessary back then. Nowadays, I rarely go into Basica for anything except to use it as a calculator or send escape strings to the printer. If I use basic, I go to Quick Basic, and it doesn't matter how I format things because the language is compiled. Also - with that example - none of those REMs are necessary. They don't add anything that the code already tells you. It is like saying: 10 I=10:' set I to 10 - meaningless. --- ■ EZ 1.33 ■ I'm still using DOS. Pity me. ■ R105L:Intelec Net ■ The Higher Powered BBS ■ Sunnyvale, CA ■ 408-737-9447 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-14-90 (01:13) Number: 9202 / 9466 (Echo) To: RICKIE BELITZ Refer#: 9182 From: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Read: NO Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │ Interesting. I have never saw an optimizing assembler. There are a │few things that Optasm will do for you. For instance if you had an │instruction to LEA of some variable's address, Optasm may change it to │MOV OFFSET of the variable address depending on which segment the │variable was located in. The reason it does that is LEA is slightly │slower but in some cases you have to use it. You can tell Optasm to no │mess with it. I guess you could call that some form of optimizing. I found these flyer again, they say TASM does NOP squishing when optimizes short jumps. Is it really optimizing? I dunno. We can vote for it, however. Janos --- ■ EZ 1.27 ■ Date: 08-13-90 (14:11) Number: 9203 / 9466 (Echo) To: ORRIN EDWARDS Refer#: NONE From: DAVID FOX Read: NO Subj: DIMENSIONING ARRAYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) ══════╡Monday, 13 August╞══════ OE┤What is so bizarre about the ability to change the array base? Nothing, if just that is considered. There are other things in the TI-99 basic that makes it look bizarre. --- ■ EZ 1.33 ■ No deseo quelo saque. ■ R105L:Intelec Net ■ The Higher Powered BBS ■ Sunnyvale, CA ■ 408-737-9447 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-12-90 (19:29) Number: 9204 / 9466 (Echo) To: STEVE FOX Refer#: 9188 From: TIM KITCHEN Read: 08-17-90 (18:10) Subj: Printer Access Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Thanks for the help, Steve, I'll try that. Now I have to write YET ANOTHER routine to ask the user a simple question. PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-14-90 (17:18) Number: 9205 / 9466 (Echo) To: STEVEN ZASSMAN Refer#: 9189 From: DENNIS EDWARDS Read: NO Subj: Find free memory Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │SZ>│I am trying to write a function which will return the amount of memory │SZ>│available, similar to CHKDSK.COM. │DE> │DE> │DE> mov ah, 50h ; get current PSP from DOS │DE> int 21h │DE> mov es, bx ; returned in BX put in ES │DE> mov bx, 2 ; get paras remaining from PSP │DE> mov ax, es:[bx] ; into AX (AX *16 = bytes free) │DE> │ │Thanks Dennis. │This was exactly what I needed. Yer welcome. Glad it works for you. Happy Computing. --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 08-14-90 (18:27) Number: 9206 / 9466 (Echo) To: DENNIS EDWARDS Refer#: 9200 From: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Read: 08-23-90 (10:42) Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │Lots of guys who use OPTASM will look at you sideways if you even menti │another assembler. Hehehe, I like that. │You can save maybe one or two percent on executable size just by elimin │NOPs; execution is improved more appreciably since 2 NOPS takes the sam │as 3 reg-reg SUB, ADD, OR etc. instructions on a 286 or later (these On the CDC/Cyber I used before nothing took less time to execute than the NOP. │instructions each take the same time on 8088/6). And, in the case of M │TA <2.0, there is always at least one NOP following any jump w/in ±127 │that is not declared SHORT. Coding a JMP SHORT to anything farther than │byte will, of course, generate an "operand out of range" error. Under c │conditions you can end up with 2 or 3 of these following a JMP instruct │(_NEVER_ use the JUMPS directive with TA <2.0 as it assumes FAR jumps w │do). │ │The new multipass design of TA 2.0 and its superior HLL support may mak │more desirable than OA if you just write subs for HLLs. But I suspect t │when run through its paces, the MACRO processor will prove inadequate │for OOP work and similarly bizare things I tend to try. OOP with ASM??? That's going to interesting! Thanks for the info, Janos --- ■ EZ 1.27 ■ Date: 08-09-90 (21:25) Number: 9207 / 9466 (Echo) To: RICKIE BELITZ Refer#: 9182 From: LARRY HELBER Read: NO Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) => According to Borland's flyer, TASM 2.0 does some optimizing. => => Interesting. I have never saw an optimizing assembler. One of the things that Borland's TASM does is optomize your jumps. When you jump forward to a lable the compiler does not know weither it is a near or a far jump. Therefor it leaves 2 bytes free to fill in. Once the label is found its ofset is computed and placed back at the jmp instruction. If it is a near jump (and only needs 1 byte) then it just puts a NOP in the second byte. This is the way that a lot of compilers handle this situation. TASM now goes back and moves everything around so it does not have to use the NOP. That is only one of the optomisations that it has. I am not sure what else is availible. --- ■ EZ 1.26 ■ Micro Science NEW PHONE # ->>> 716-594-1804 NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - NEW PHONE! ->>> 716 594-1804 <<<- PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-09-90 (21:25) Number: 9208 / 9466 (Echo) To: TIM KITCHEN Refer#: 9186 From: LARRY HELBER Read: NO Subj: PRINTER ACCESS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) =>I have what I hope is a trivial question. How do you deal with printe =>from within C? Specifically, how do I send output to the current =>printer device in MS DOS. Does stdprn map directly to the Parallel po =>or can it map to LPT1, LPT2, etc? Depending on the compiler that you use the printer names will be a little different. stdprn is usuall the same printer that is set using the mode command and normally defaults to LPT1. Check in your manual and you should find macros for handleing the other ports directly. You then handle them just like a file. Open them with fopen and write to them using what ever format you desire. You will have to becareful about <CR><LF> translations too,depending on the mode you open the printer at. Also if you are planning on printing to a network printer MAKE SURE YOU CLOSE it when you are done. Most networks will not start a print job until it has recived the complete file. --- ■ EZ 1.26 ■ Micro Science- NEW PHONE ->>> 594-1804 <<<- NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - NEW PHONE! ->>> 716 594-1804 <<<- PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-14-90 (20:24) Number: 9209 / 9466 (Echo) To: DENNIS EDWARDS Refer#: 9199 From: RICKIE BELITZ Read: 08-23-90 (10:42) Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) -> Doncha remember when OA first came out - they were advertising it as -> an optimising assembler for the NOP squish and instruction -> substitution capabilities you site. Probably due to the attitude of -> crusty ASM types such as yourself [:-)], they dropped that line. -> Borland still thinks its good TYPE, Crusty hell, I'm well baked. Yeah, I do...I just couldn't resist the chance to say something. i.e I think your last line should read. -> Borland still thinks its good HYPE, not TYPE. :) NET/Mail : Intelec (tm) Data-Comp BBS (615) 982-6512/37 *Hayes 9600V* PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-14-90 (20:19) Number: 9210 / 9466 (Echo) To: DENNIS EDWARDS Refer#: 9200 From: RICKIE BELITZ Read: 08-23-90 (10:42) Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) -> MASM neither evaluates macros or EQUs in strucs nor allows nested -> strucs and so barfs up "phase errors" when you try to do this sort of -> thing. End of MASM. -> While OPTASM doesn't allow nested strucs it did happily expand the -> MACROs inside any STRUCs. And, more importantly, it processed the -> macros used to access the data reliably. I'm glad you said this. Saved me a lot of typing. You did a good job pointing out some important features. I have only called SLR's BBS one time myself, and that was when I was thinking about ordering their OPTLIB. Have you tried or used it ? NET/Mail : Intelec (tm) Data-Comp BBS (615) 982-6512/37 *Hayes 9600V* PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-13-90 (19:33) Number: 9211 / 9466 (Echo) To: LARRY HELBER Refer#: 9208 From: TIM KITCHEN Read: NO Subj: PRINTER ACCESS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Thanks alot for the advise on using printers from C. My application is now printing to both the local printer and the network printers. Thanks again. PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-16-90 (00:16) Number: 9212 / 9466 (Echo) To: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Refer#: 9202 From: RICKIE BELITZ Read: 08-24-90 (23:48) Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) -> I found these flyer again, they say TASM does NOP squishing when -> optimizes short jumps. Boy, I tell you. Some of the lingo Borland comes up with. Now I'm beggining to remember why I don't use much of their products. I suppose they are talking about leaving out a nop in place of the extra byte need for a near jmp. Either way (near or short) it still takes the amount of clock cycles to execute. (7/15) so it would not be a speed improvement. It would be a size improvement. (1 byte). BTW, OPTASM does that also IF you want it to. It will also do the same thing (well pratically the same, in reverse) for conditional jmps out of range by adding jmp's after the conditional branch so that your destination address will be in range. IF you want it to. All of OPTASM features are optional but I use them most of the time unless I have a good reason not to. NET/Mail : Intelec (tm) Data-Comp BBS (615) 982-6512/37 *Hayes 9600V* PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-15-90 (23:32) Number: 9213 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: JAMES BEHR Read: (N/A) Subj: I is like DF> saying: DF> DF> 10 I=10:' set I to 10 You got that right. Many times the use of longNAMEDvariables save you the problem of much documentation. -> MegaMail v2.00 #0:"Wipes & lights": Mario's brainstorm for '91 NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - NEW PHONE! ->>> 716 594-1804 <<<- PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-16-90 (19:26) Number: 9215 / 9466 (Echo) To: LARRY HELBER Refer#: 9207 From: RICKIE BELITZ Read: NO Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) -> One of the things that Borland's TASM does is optomize your jumps. -> When you jump forward to a lable the compiler does not know weither -> it is a near or a far jump. Therefor it leaves 2 bytes free to fill I don't want to sound like an old mule or something but that is exactly the point. I don't call that optimizing, I call that assembling a program. There are a lot of assemblers around that do that. MASM never could since since it is single pass, so it had know idea about forward references out of range. It is a nice feature, I guess. I could live with it or without. After all, even it came back and gave an error, all you would have to do is change the jump yourself. It isn't what you would call optimizing, it is more like correcting your mistake(s) for you. BTW, I hope it reserves more than two bytes since a near takes 3 bytes and a far jmp can take up to 5 bytes unless you are jumping from a register/memory. sorry couldn't resist the poke. :) NET/Mail : Intelec (tm) Data-Comp BBS (615) 982-6512/37 *Hayes 9600V* PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-14-90 (11:40) Number: 9216 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: GARY BOUCHARD Read: (N/A) Subj: TURBO PASCAL PUBLICATIONS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Hi all, I am a rookie TP55 programmer, and I am thirsting for information on Turbo Pascal programming, Hints, Tricks, Routines etc, and have probably bought all the books possible from Que, and McGraw Hill on the subject, but the most valuable way to learn aside from doing is reading examples, and other peoples experiences with Turbo Pascal. I was wondering if any of you could recommend some MAGAZINES on this subject. I have heard of Doctor Dobbs, but that magazine seems to devote more to C and ASM than anything else. Any help would be appreciated. I have written a few utilities for Pcboard which has helped me enormously in learning TP, but I want MORE! (* Gary Bouchard, SysOp, The Computer Store BBS St. Augustine, Florida (The Nations Oldest City). (904)797-4824 *) NET/Mail : The Computer Store BBS --> Intelec(tm) Network (904)797-4824 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-14-90 (13:51) Number: 9217 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: GARY BOUCHARD Read: (N/A) Subj: ENVIRONMENT PROMPT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) I have seen this done a thousand times, where if you shell out of a program, you can modify the prompt in the shell to remind the user that he is shelled out. Would someone please tell me how to do this? Example; Type EXIT to return to SHEZ c:\pcb> Apparently he is making this the prompt, and saving the old one which is restored before exiting the program, but whats the code to change the prompt! Gary Bouchard SysOp, The Computer Store BBS (904)797-4824, St. Augustine, Florida NET/Mail : The Computer Store BBS --> Intelec(tm) Network (904)797-4824 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-21-90 (10:59) Number: 9218 / 9466 (Echo) To: GARY BOUCHARD Refer#: 9217 From: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Read: NO Subj: ENVIRONMENT PROMPT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │I have seen this done a thousand times, where if you shell out of a │program, you can modify the prompt in the shell to remind the user that │he is shelled out. Would someone please tell me how to do this? │Example; │ │Type EXIT to return to SHEZ │c:\pcb> Well, one way is to use PROMPT. For instance, "prompt $ Type EXIT to return to SHEZ $_$p$g" creates the above mentioned prompt. (path CAPITALIZED; you must be in PCB) There are other ways, too, but this is the simplest, I believe. Janos --- ■ EZ 1.27 ■ Date: 08-21-90 (17:35) Number: 9219 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: JEFFERY FOY Read: (N/A) Subj: Redirection of TSRs? Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Is it possible to redirect the output of a TSR program to a file? If so, how? The problem: I have a program that someone gave me. It is a TSR that is called via <ALT-T>. The only documentation is *in* the program. I've tried obvious things like: program > output and even the 4DOS idea of: program >& output but they both leave a 0-byte file when I call the TSR (via ALT-T). I'm sure that I'm not the only person who's run into this problem as TSRs have been around for quite some time. :) I'd appreciate any help or suggestions. Jeff --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 08-19-90 (15:33) Number: 9220 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: BRIAN TRUDEAU Read: (N/A) Subj: BOARD DOORS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Hello. How does one learn how to make game doors for boards? I'm interested in making one... Is it possible to make it in GWBASIC? I will be learning C pretty soon, but I am very experienced in GWBASIC. Also, is there a GWBASIC complier out there? -Brian --- ■ RNet 1.04U: The Eagle's Nest BBS - (413) 568-9287 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-20-90 (13:26) Number: 9221 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: TERRY BOOYSEN Read: (N/A) Subj: ECHO MAIL Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) THIS CONFERENCE IS NOW BEING ECHOED ECHO MAIL --->>> Netline Namibia > Netline Flagship NET/Mail : InteLec (Tm) : Netline Flagship UsR HST +27-11-482-1285 (SA) PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-20-90 (18:16) Number: 9222 / 9466 (Echo) To: GARY BOUCHARD Refer#: NONE From: DAVID P SMITH Read: NO Subj: ENVIRONMENT PROMPT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) «-»Type EXIT to return to SHEZ «-»c:\pcb> «-» «-»Apparently he is making this the prompt, and saving the old one which is «-»restored before exiting the program, but whats the code to change the «-»prompt! What I think is happening is that when you shell to DOS you reload COMMAND.COM so now there are 2 in RAM each with its own configuration. Now, when you exit, you are back to your original COMMAND.COM and its config so the prompt is back to its original setting. So much for my theory as to that, some fuel for thought. Dave --- ■ EZ 1.33 #1043 ■ "May the force be with you." -- Luke ■ R105G: Intelec Net ■ Toad Hall BBS ■ San Carlos, Ca ■ 415-595-2427 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-21-90 (21:18) Number: 9223 / 9466 (Echo) To: BRIAN TRUDEAU Refer#: 9220 From: STEVE FOX Read: NO Subj: BOARD DOORS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) BT│is there a GWBASIC complier out there? -Brian Yup. Microsoft makes two: QuickBASIC, an excellent package (and not too expensive), and a BASIC compiler (which is fairly expensive). Try QuickBASIC. You'll never go back to GWBASIC. All you have to do is save your BASIC programs in ASCII mode, then you can use them on QuickBASIC. For example: SAVE "myprog",A --- ■ EZ 1.29 ■ Date: 08-19-90 (01:03) Number: 9224 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: ARIEL BADILLO Read: (N/A) Subj: BASIC Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) lets say you were makeing a program in basic and the program consisted of two seperate files , what would be the command that would enable the main file to open and read the information in the second file ????. NET/Mail : Intelec ■ DataCom SoftWare ■ NYC ■ 212-496-7946 ■ USR 14.4k PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-20-90 (02:13) Number: 9225 / 9466 (Echo) To: LARRY HELBER Refer#: 9177 From: JOSHUA KEICH Read: YES Subj: DIMENSIONING ARRAYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) I am using Applesoft BASIC (on an Apple IIC). NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - NEW PHONE! ->>> 716 594-1804 <<<- PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-20-90 (02:19) Number: 9226 / 9466 (Echo) To: STEVE SHANKER Refer#: 9178 From: JOSHUA KEICH Read: NO Subj: DIMENSIONING ARRAYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) I only provided the loop that was creating the problem without the rest of the program included to save time on-line. NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - NEW PHONE! ->>> 716 594-1804 <<<- PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-20-90 (07:53) Number: 9227 / 9466 (Echo) To: DAVE JOHNSON Refer#: 9192 From: JOSHUA KEICH Read: NO Subj: DIMENSIONING ARRAYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) I did dimension the array properly: DIM E(100). I get the error with E dimensioned as shown when X=>11. The FOR-NEXT LOOP is as follows: FOR X=0 TO 100 NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - NEW PHONE! ->>> 716 594-1804 <<<- PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-22-90 (09:11) Number: 9228 / 9466 (Echo) To: JEFFERY FOY Refer#: 9219 From: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Read: 08-22-90 (14:53) Subj: Redirection of TSRs? Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │Is it possible to redirect the output of a TSR program to a file? │If so, how? If the output is displayed via DOS call then it is possible to redirect it. However, redirecting direct screen I/O is impossible by using pipes. I'm not sure about the ROM BIOS calls; I think piping won't work. Janos --- ■ EZ 1.27 ■ Date: 08-22-90 (16:52) Number: 9229 / 9466 (Echo) To: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Refer#: 9228 From: JEFFERY FOY Read: 08-24-90 (23:48) Subj: Redirection of TSRs? Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) JS>│Is it possible to redirect the output of a TSR program to a file? JS>│If so, how? JS> JS>If the output is displayed via DOS call then it is possible to JS>redirect it. I have no way of knowing if this is the case. I'd suspect not since nothing I've tried works. :) JS>I'm not sure about the ROM BIOS calls; I think piping won't work. You're right there. Jeff --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 08-21-90 (07:32) Number: 9230 / 9466 (Echo) To: BRIAN TRUDEAU Refer#: NONE From: DAVID FOX Read: NO Subj: BOARD DOORS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) ══════╡Tuesday, 21 August╞══════ BT┤Hello. How does one learn how to make game doors for boards? I'm │interested in making one... Is it possible to make it in GWBASIC? I will │be learning C pretty soon, but I am very experienced in GWBASIC. Also, │is there a GWBASIC complier out there? -Brian I don't think you'd want to do it in GWBASIC unless you can compile it - otherwise it would be very very slow. There are some gwbasic compilers (BASCOM, for example), but the best way to go (for Basic) is to get Microsoft Quickbasic 4.5 as fast as possible. There are a lot of Quickbasic utilities out there (probably more for QB than for any other language) on bbses. Although QB will compile gwbasic programs, you'll quickly want to stray as far away from the gwbasic format as you can. QB has a lot of structured programming in it, like real function calls, if blocks, case statements, and you don't need to use line numbers anymore. --- ■ EZ 1.33 ■ May thy Pipes be created on floppies ■ R105L:Intelec Net ■ The Higher Powered BBS ■ Sunnyvale, CA ■ 408-737-9447 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-22-90 (14:11) Number: 9231 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: TODD LOWPENSKY Read: (N/A) Subj: Macro programs Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) I am looking for a memory resident, menu operated macro program to allow the user to program function keys to key sequences to ease data entry. If anyone knows of any, please tell me about them. Thanks. -Todd- --- ■ Via ProDoor 3.3ßR ■ R105G: Intelec Net ■ Toad Hall BBS ■ San Carlos, Ca ■ 415-595-2427 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-23-90 (22:17) Number: 9232 / 9466 (Echo) To: JEFFERY FOY Refer#: 9229 From: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Read: 08-25-90 (20:51) Subj: Redirection of TSRs? Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │JS>│Is it possible to redirect the output of a TSR program to a file? │JS>│If so, how? │JS> │JS>If the output is displayed via DOS call then it is possible to │JS>redirect it. │ │I have no way of knowing if this is the case. I'd suspect not │since nothing I've tried works. :) You might write your own TSR or device driver to redirect the output. This would read directly from the display memory, so it should work with all kind of output with no exception. (assume text mode) Janos --- ■ EZ 1.27 ■ Date: 08-22-90 (09:58) Number: 9233 / 9466 (Echo) To: JOSHUA KEICH Refer#: 9227 From: STEVE SHANKER Read: NO Subj: DIMENSIONING ARRAYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) JK> I did dimension the array properly: DIM E(100). I get the error wi JK> dimensioned as shown when X=>11. The FOR-NEXT LOOP is as follows: JK> JK> FOR X=0 TO 100 The error is simple, you have dimensioned E as 100, but the loop counts to 101 units. Zero counts as a unit here, so there are 101 units. Either dimension E as 101, or, run the loop as "For X= 1 to 100 or alternatively, 0 to 99. -> MegaMail v2.00 #0:"Wipes & lights": Mario's brainstorm for '91 NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - NEW PHONE! ->>> 716 594-1804 <<<- PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-24-90 (17:05) Number: 9234 / 9466 (Echo) To: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Refer#: 9206 From: DENNIS EDWARDS Read: 08-24-90 (23:49) Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │On the CDC/Cyber I used before nothing took less time to execute than │the NOP. NOP is definately a "3 clock" op on any 80x86. It was maintained- while other instructions went down in cycle consumption- on the later chips so that "time critical loops" wouldn't break. Course they'll still break, but that's beside the point. It does give a program a "constant" to judge against relative loop counts so it that timing compensations can be calculated more easily (without running the actual code). │OOP with ASM??? That's going to interesting! Yeah, 7/89 DDJ (I think) and last June or July of Computer Language had stuff on OOP ASM. │Thanks for the info, ya bet. --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 08-24-90 (17:05) Number: 9235 / 9466 (Echo) To: RICKIE BELITZ Refer#: 9209 From: DENNIS EDWARDS Read: NO Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │-> Doncha remember when OA first came out - they were advertising it as... │-> Borland still thinks its good TYPE, │ Crusty hell, I'm well baked. Yeah, I do...I just couldn't resist the Hardtack? │chance to say something. i.e I think your last line should read. │-> Borland still thinks its good HYPE, not TYPE. :) Yeah. Twas a pun though; re: nature of structure. --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 08-24-90 (17:05) Number: 9236 / 9466 (Echo) To: RICKIE BELITZ Refer#: 9210 From: DENNIS EDWARDS Read: NO Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │-> MASM neither evaluates macros or EQUs in strucs nor allows nested... │-> While OPTASM doesn't allow nested strucs it did happily expand the... │ I'm glad you said this. Saved me a lot of typing. You did a good │job pointing out some important features. Thanks. Glad it was useful. │I have only called SLR's BBS │one time myself, and that was when I was thinking about ordering their │OPTLIB. Have you tried or used it ? No. I haven't needed to do stuff I couldn't get done with LIB or TLIB. I just run it with a lib response file as a background task in OMNIVIEW. --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 08-24-90 (17:05) Number: 9237 / 9466 (Echo) To: RCKIE BELITZ Refer#: 9212 From: DENNIS EDWARDS Read: NO Subj: MASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │-> I found these flyer again, they say TASM does NOP squishing when │-> optimizes short jumps. │ Boy, I tell you. Some of the lingo Borland comes up with. Now I'm │beggining to remember why I don't use much of their products. I suppose │they are talking about leaving out a nop in place of the extra byte │need for a near jmp. Either way (near or short) it still takes the │amount of clock cycles to execute. (7/15) so it would not be a speed │improvement. It would be a size improvement. (1 byte). It would be a 3 cycle speed improvement if the jump was conditional and not taken. --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 08-22-90 (19:48) Number: 9238 / 9466 (Echo) To: JEFFERY FOY Refer#: 9219 From: LARRY HELBER Read: 08-25-90 (20:51) Subj: REDIRECTION OF TSRS? Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) -> Is it possible to redirect the output of a TSR program to a file? If -> so, how? No. By the nature of TSRs and how they are written, they are not allowed to use any DOS or BIOS calls. Mostly because DOS and BIOS are non-reentrant (don't worry if you do no know what it means). Because of this they CANNOT be called from insode of a TSR (this is one of the things that makes a TSR hard to write). Redirecting the output of a program uses a function of DOS. Since the TSR does not use DOS then it will not work. Another reason that it will not work is because TSRs write directly to the screen. Any program that writes directly to the screen can not be redirected. NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - NEW PHONE! ->>> 716 594-1804 <<<- PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 CAUTION: Auto-Disconnect in (3) min.! Date: 08-22-90 (19:56) Number: 9239 / 9466 (Echo) To: JOSHUA KEICH Refer#: 9225 From: LARRY HELBER Read: NO Subj: DIMENSIONING ARRAYS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) -> I am using Applesoft BASIC (on an Apple IIC). That may be part of the problem. The code that you posted looked somthing like this: 10 DIM A(100) 20 FOR I = 0 TO 100 ... The program was crashing for in the 1st 10 elements. Try changing the I value to a 1. Like every one before has mentioned that you are actually counting 101 elements. I also think that there is a possiblity that the Applesoft BASIC that you are using may not like a 0 option base. It may not help but is worth a try. NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - NEW PHONE! ->>> 716 594-1804 <<<- PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-25-90 (10:40) Number: 9240 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: MICHAEL BRUNK Read: (N/A) Subj: Echoing Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) CyberSpace BBS in Burien, WA is now echoing this conference. PCRelay:CSPACE -> #438 CyberSpace * (206)248-7647 * GAP * Burien, WA 4.10 Date: 08-25-90 (11:20) Number: 9241 / 9466 (Echo) To: TODD LOWPENSKY Refer#: 9231 From: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Read: NO Subj: Macro programs Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │ I am looking for a memory resident, menu operated macro program │to allow the user to program function keys to key sequences to ease dat │entry. If anyone knows of any, please tell me about them. Thanks. Why don't you use PROMPT? You can write batchfile(s) containing nothing but PROMPT to repogram the F-keys. Janos --- ■ EZ 1.27 ■ Date: 08-24-90 (20:04) Number: 9242 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: JON ALFISI Read: (N/A) Subj: MICROSOFT C Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) I am having trouble installing my Microsoft C v6.0. When i try to install it on the hard disk, the Programmers Workbench disk will not install, it might be a bad disk, but i want to check and see if anyone knows what i might be doing wrong. Thanks a lot. NET/Mail : Arrakis - NJ Intelec (tm) Hub - 19200 HST - (201) 730-7328 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-24-90 (23:18) Number: 9243 / 9466 (Echo) To: BRIAN TRUDEAU Refer#: 9220 From: JAMES BEHR Read: NO Subj: BOARD DOORS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) I'm working on one right now and almost finished. I am using Turbo Pascal 4.0 to write it. I know you can right one in basic for example Yankee Trader is done in basic (compiler). You are, however, better off doing it in a lower language level than basic. C preferably. I'm only doing it in pascal for logic clarity at first then I will either use turbo C or Turbo assembler (the latter preferably). so far it the game runs fine at 2400 1200 300 baud but is untested at higher speeds. Not sure if the pascal routines I wrote are fast enough to handle the incomming modem interrupts. The fist thing you need to do is decide on which bbs system to write it for since different bbs uses different to save the callers bbs info as he/she enters the game. I wrote mine for Wildcat. If you know alot of bbs caller info files then you can write a multi-bbs game and have a config file that the sysop can specify what type of board he/she is running. If you just kow one board that is fine since there are utilities out there that a sysop can use in order to use a game written for the other bbs. all that utility does is config the present bbs's call info into the one the game is written for. It's not 100% reliable and can cause the game to do strange things. You will have to trap interrupts 11 and 12 those are the bios's modem interrupt. You want to do this so you don't have to poll the modems port all the time doing this at higher speeds and you can lose lots of characters. The interrupt routine will be called when a character is recieved and the program will jump to that routine saving the character so if your program is doing something else you won't lose that character. But one thing to remember is that if you are unsing any dos interrupts you must turn off the interrupts coming in from the modem since the program will jump to you Isr (interupt service routine) even if you are in a dos routine and when the Isr is done you can't go back to where your dos routine left off and may even crash your system. I'm not sure how to do this in basic just Pascal and C or even assembler. But since you said you knew Basic good you should have no trouble. Now i'm not sure if Dos disk routines are the same when an Isr is serviced. I left a message #55 but i havent' gotten any replies yet. i pretty sure I need to turn off the interrupt from the modem but just want to make sure I don't need to waste my time doing so if it is done already. If you need any more help than this just let me know or if you need more specifics I just thought to give you a general info message to get you started. NET/Mail : Intelec ■ DataCom SoftWare ■ NYC ■ 212-496-7946 ■ USR 14.4k PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-25-90 (23:18) Number: 9244 / 9466 (Echo) To: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Refer#: 9232 From: JEFFERY FOY Read: 08-26-90 (13:58) Subj: Redirection of TSRs? Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) JS>You might write your own TSR or device driver to redirect the output. JS>This would read directly from the display memory, so it should work JS>with all kind of output with no exception. (assume text mode) Thanks for your advice and suggestions, Janos. I found a program that captures the text screen (snipper.com). Worked quite well. Jeff --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 08-25-90 (23:18) Number: 9245 / 9466 (Echo) To: LARRY HELBER Refer#: 9238 From: JEFFERY FOY Read: NO Subj: REDIRECTION OF TSRS? Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) LH>to use any DOS or BIOS calls. Mostly because DOS and BIOS are LH>non-reentrant (don't worry if you do no know what it means). Yes, I know about DOS' inability to handle re-entrancy. Too bad. LH>Because of this they CANNOT be called from insode of a TSR LH>(this is one of the things that makes a TSR hard to write). That's why I don't write TSRs myself. Besides, it's kinda hard to do that in C++ anyway. LH>Another reason that it will not work is because TSRs write directly to LH>the screen. Any program that writes directly to the screen can not be LH>redirected. I found a workaround in a program called snipper.com. It grabs whatever is in video memory (text) and saves it to a file. Works splendidly. Jeff --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 08-24-90 (19:38) Number: 9246 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: PAUL GODDU Read: (N/A) Subj: WE ARE HERE Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) The Aldenville Station Pcb Bbs in Chicopee Ma.Is now echoing this conference. T.T.F.N. =========Paul G.========= --- ■ RNet 1.04U: ■INTELEC >The Aldenville Station ■ Chic. ■ MA ■ (413)538-7311 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-24-90 (04:42) Number: 9247 / 9466 (Echo) To: TODD LOWPENSKY Refer#: NONE From: RON JOUBERT Read: NO Subj: MACRO PROGRAMS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) -> I am looking for a memory resident, menu operated macro program -> to allow the user to program function keys to key sequences to ease -> data entry. If anyone knows of any, please tell me about them. -> Thanks. I used a program called keyworks. It allowed you to define any key as a Macro. Also you could setup all your macros into a menu and access them through pop-up windows. Very very good program. --- ■ RNet 1.04U: ■INTELEC >Itty Bitty BBS ■ Springfield ■ MA ■ (413)746-3498 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-24-90 (06:33) Number: 9248 / 9466 (Echo) To: DAVID P SMITH Refer#: NONE From: GARY BOUCHARD Read: NO Subj: ENVIRONMENT PROMPT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) -> What I think is happening is that when you shell to DOS you reload -> COMMAND.COM so now there are 2 in RAM each with its own -> configuration. -> Now, when you exit, you are back to your original COMMAND.COM and -> its config so the prompt is back to its original setting. So much -> for my theory as to that, some fuel for thought. Dave I am sure that's what is happening...He loads a second copy of command.com with it's own copy of the environment modified the way he needs it. My question is, how do I do this in Turbo 5.5? I have been reading and experimenting, but have not come up with a solution. I notice that C has a routine that can actually CHANGE the environment table, but the books I have for TP55 say that you cannot change the table at least thru TP55. You can get info from it till your blue in the face, but making changes to it.... I know it's probably not a complicated procedure, just getting the right statements together to make it work is what I am looking for! NET/Mail : The Computer Store BBS --> Intelec(tm) Network (904)797-4824 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-24-90 (06:37) Number: 9249 / 9466 (Echo) To: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Refer#: NONE From: GARY BOUCHARD Read: 08-27-90 (07:36) Subj: ENVIRONMENT PROMPT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) -> Well, one way is to use PROMPT. For instance, "prompt $ Type EXIT to -> return to SHEZ $_$p$g" creates the above mentioned prompt. (path -> CAPITALIZED; you must be in PCB) There are other ways, too, but this -> is the simplest, I believe. Janos, Thanks for the reply...I will try this, but all the books I have say that you cannot change the environment from inside a program...You must be out in DOS to effect the change. My problem is getting that information out to DOS as the shell executes, so it's there as the user arrives at the prompt. What other idea's do you have? NET/Mail : The Computer Store BBS --> Intelec(tm) Network (904)797-4824 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-25-90 (04:53) Number: 9250 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: JUSTIN HENRY Read: (N/A) Subj: AFTER... Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Okay, After talking to Sysop, we figured out that this was a VERY, and TOOD DEAD conference. Then he checked things out, and realized that the Configuration was incorrect. He has fixed things, and did such a good job. Got right on the ball. Anyways, The Phoenix BBS is now echoing the Programming Conference once again, and please, also welcome PC-Emporium BBS as they are also echoing the programming conference/folder/forum/subboard/message area (I think I got them all) -- Justin PCRelay:PHOENIX -> Intelec (tm) Free Message Exchange ■ PHOENIX BBS (407) 451-9845 HST GAP v 4.4 ■ Date: 08-24-90 (17:19) Number: 9251 / 9466 (Echo) To: GARY BOUCHARD Refer#: 9217 From: JEFF GARZIK Read: NO Subj: ENVIRONMENT PROMPT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Just set the environment variable "PROMPT" to whatever you wish it to be. It might to smart to save the PROMPT first through a call to GetEnv() NET/Mail : Intelec(tm) - The Spectrum - (919) 355-0665 - USR 14,400 HST PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-26-90 (10:52) Number: 9252 / 9466 (Echo) To: GARY BOUCHARD Refer#: NONE From: DAVID P SMITH Read: NO Subj: ENVIRONMENT PROMPT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) «-»I am sure that's what is happening...He loads a second copy of «-»command.com with it's own copy of the environment modified the way he «-»needs it. My question is, how do I do this in Turbo 5.5? I have been Yes that is whats happening. I looked into the .EXE file and toward the end there is a PROMPT=EXIT to xxxxx$_$p$g. I don't know Turbo but I would think there is a command to output to the console device which allow these type of changes. Dave --- ■ EZ 1.33 #1043 ■ "Thanks for the drinks" -- Mr. Hom ■ R105G: Intelec Net ■ Toad Hall BBS ■ San Carlos, Ca ■ 415-595-2427 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-27-90 (11:34) Number: 9253 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: ARTHUR GREGORY Read: (N/A) Subj: C OR BASIC Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) I have been a programer in basic for a time now, and I am thinking of trying C ... but first I wanted to find out one thing, and that is if C is better than basic when it comes to programing with graphics I would be thankful to anyone who answers my message thanks!!!! PCRelay:STARFND -> #510 Starfinder I * Renton WA * 206-277-1689 4.10 Date: 08-27-90 (14:58) Number: 9254 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: JOSHUA MACCRAW Read: (N/A) Subj: WINDOWS ICONS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Anyone out there know of a way to create icons for windows 3.0?? Also is there a way to convert say a PCX file to an Icon? Or maybe a way to copy out the data for an existing icon from a windows app. and change it??? L8r, Necromancer. NET/Mail : INTELEC Net - Phantasm BBs 201-291-2302(HST)/4134(HAYES96) PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-27-90 (15:00) Number: 9255 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: JOSHUA MACCRAW Read: (N/A) Subj: MASM VS. TASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Is there any differnce between Microsoft MASM & Borlands TASM?? I.E. Can TASM do all that MASM can??? I have both and if MASM if fully supported by TASM then I can just drop MASM. L8r, Necromancer. NET/Mail : INTELEC Net - Phantasm BBs 201-291-2302(HST)/4134(HAYES96) PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-28-90 (23:50) Number: 9257 / 9466 (Echo) To: GARY BOUCHARD Refer#: 9249 From: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Read: NO Subj: ENVIRONMENT PROMPT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │My problem is getting that information out to DOS as the shell │executes, so it's there as the user arrives at the prompt. │What other idea's do you have? Use Int 21h function 4Bh. With this function call you may transfer up to 32Kb (!!) of environment block to the child process. For more info: Advanced MS-DOS programming by Ray Duncan; p188-206, p358-359. I checked my TP manual, there isn't very much info on Exec, and virtually nothing on its CmdLine; maybe this CmdLine could be used to set the environment, too. Janos --- ■ EZ 1.27 ■ Date: 08-29-90 (08:36) Number: 9258 / 9466 (Echo) To: TODD LOWPENSKY Refer#: 9231 From: DENNIS EDWARDS Read: NO Subj: Macro programs Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │ I am looking for a memory resident, menu operated macro program │to allow the user to program function keys to key sequences to ease data │entry. If anyone knows of any, please tell me about them. Thanks. │ -Todd- Turbo Power Software sells two tool kits that have such a beast (w/ source) Turbo Professional is a TP 4.x/5.0 compatible set of units while Object Professional supports TP 5.5. This is essentially the same macro processor that is included with the OMNIVIEW multitasker (Sunny Hill, the OMNIVIEW guys, originally wrote Turbo Professional and sold it to Turbo Power). It includes a macro editor, file merge, cut & paste, file queueing to PRINT, etc. In the shareware arena you might look at NewKey which is a sort of ProKey clone. --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 08-28-90 (04:35) Number: 9259 / 9466 (Echo) To: JOSHUA MACCRAW Refer#: 9255 From: RICKIE BELITZ Read: NO Subj: MASM VS. TASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) -> supported by TASM then I can just drop MASM. I would seriously take a look at OPTASM before I changed over to any other assembler. This is put out by SLR systems. They can be reached via BBS at 1-412-282-2799 and voice at 1-412-282-0864. The program is available from most software places, (programmers connections etc). Ask any tuna in the assembler sea and they will tell you the same thing. They will tell you the same thing, OPTASM is the best chicken of the sea. It is great! Rickie Belitz NET/Mail : Intelec (tm) Knoxville Consortium BBS, Data-Comp BBS PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-26-90 (09:31) Number: 9260 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: TED FOSS Read: (N/A) Subj: QB45 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) anyone one out there know how to write text files from qb45 without it putting the text between quotes?? (i know this conference has emphasis on pascal, c, assm, but no one else anywhere has been able to help me...) Ted PCRelay:EMPORIUM -> #706 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 PC-EMPORIUM, Boca Raton, FL. 407-994-3690 Date: 08-29-90 (08:32) Number: 9261 / 9466 (Echo) To: JOSHUA MACCRAW Refer#: 9254 From: BRUCE KROBUSEK Read: NO Subj: WINDOWS ICONS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) JM>Anyone out there know of a way to create icons for windows 3.0?? There's a shareware file running around called ICONDRAW, which is used to roll-your-own icons. JM>Also is there a way to convert say a PCX file to an Icon? There's another shareware file wandering about called GIF2ICON, which converts a GIF file into an icon. You can probably find both of these on a local board. - BAK - 8/29/90 --- ■ EZ 1.32 #1085 ■ CoSysOp - Data Comm 716-271-6582 PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-29-90 (20:47) Number: 9262 / 9466 (Echo) To: JOSHUA MACCRAW Refer#: NONE From: ROBERT MAVERIK Read: NO Subj: WINDOWS ICONS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) JM>Anyone out there know of a way to create icons for windows 3.0?? JM>Also is there a way to convert say a PCX file to an Icon? JM>Or maybe a way to copy out the data for an existing icon from a windows JM>app. and change it??? There are several icon editors, including one the uses the Paint program. I am sure most BBS's carry at least one of these files. They are usually named something like ICONED or similar. Yes, there is a way to convert a PCX file to an icon, but it has to fit into the bit-mapped size of the icon, which I believe is 32 x 32. The Paint program can read a PCX file, then you can use the icon editor that is supposed to work with Paint. The Clipboard is used to transfer the image. Any of the icon editors will allow you to change an existing icon if it is in a simple icon file (as opposed to the built-in icons in many Windows programs or the several .DLL file available). The icons are just small, bit-mapped files. -- Rob -- ■ R105G: Intelec Net ■ Toad Hall BBS ■ San Carlos, Ca ■ 415-595-2427 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-30-90 (18:22) Number: 9263 / 9466 (Echo) To: JOSHUA MACCRAW Refer#: 9254 From: JEFFERY FOY Read: NO Subj: WINDOWS ICONS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) JM>Anyone out there know of a way to create icons for windows 3.0?? I've never seen anything but ICONDRAW do that. JM>Also is there a way to convert say a PCX file to an Icon? JM>Or maybe a way to copy out the data for an existing icon from a windows JM>app. and change it??? There is a file called GRAFWK41.ZIP. It has a program to convert many different graphics formats to others. One of the formats supported is Windows' BMP format. Jeff --- ■ EZ 1.30 ■ Date: 08-30-90 (19:19) Number: 9264 / 9466 (Echo) To: TED FOSS Refer#: 9260 From: ORRIN EDWARDS Read: NO Subj: QB45 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) TF>anyone one out there know how to write text files from qb45 without it TF>putting the text between quotes?? Use the PRINT #n statement rather then WRITE #n.... assuming file #3 is open for output..... Print #3, "Test Text" will put Test Text in file #3 without quotes around it. Orrin --- ■ EZ 1.29 #994 ■ ..Noah wrote the First ARC program PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-29-90 (13:03) Number: 9265 / 9466 (Echo) To: ARTHUR GREGORY Refer#: 9253 From: COREY HAINES Read: NO Subj: C Graphics Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) I haven't programmed extensively in graphics with C, but I do know that it is pretty easy to do. However, I also never got into Graphics on BASIC, so I don't know about that. I do hear, though, that C is really easy to do graphics with, especially if you get into OOP, as most of the OOP (Object Oriented Programming) things that I have seen are graphical in nature. Of course, OOP is supported in C++, and it would help to learn C first, but that is really easy to do. PCRelay:CSPACE -> #438 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 CyberSpace * (206)248-7647 * GAP * Burien, WA Date: 08-30-90 (13:49) Number: 9266 / 9466 (Echo) To: TED FOSS Refer#: 9260 From: JUSTIN HENRY Read: NO Subj: QB45 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Hmmm Ted, i really dont think there is any way. Do you have the Quick Basic Manual? Im Sure there is a switch or something. What are you writing? A Word Processor? Justin Henry PCRelay:CROSFIRE -> #460 Intelec (tm) Free Message Exchange 4.10 * Cross Fire BBS 305-785-9596 HST * Date: 08-29-90 (20:12) Number: 9267 / 9466 (Echo) To: TED FOSS Refer#: 9260 From: JON WITMER Read: NO Subj: QB45 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Ted, I have never used QuickBasic, just TurboBasic, but the process should be the same. Here is an example of code that writes one line to a file without any quotes actually going into the file: Out.Line$ = "This is a test line for the text file." Open "test.dat" for Output as #1 Print #1, Out.Line$ Close #1 In Basic, the quotes are placed in a file to "delimit" (fancy term for separate) data items from one another. For example, if the data file contained: "this is a ","test" and you issued the the commands: input #1, a$:input #1, b$ the variable a$ would contatin "this is a " and the variable b$ would contain "test". Without the quotes in the above line, the variable a$ would contatin the whole line. Good luck, let me know if you need any more information, JBW PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 CAUTION: Auto-Disconnect in (1) min.! Date: 08-30-90 (16:43) Number: 9268 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: GARY BOUCHARD Read: (N/A) Subj: DATA TYPES IN TURBO PAS Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) I notice, looking at other peoples code in Pascal, that a lot of people use string data types...i.e. String8 = String[8]; What purpose does that serve? I cannot find anything about this in the books I have concerning the use of strings in this fashion. Can someone please explain this to me? (* Gary Bouchard / The Computer Store BBS, Florida *) NET/Mail : The Computer Store BBS --> Intelec(tm) Network (904)797-4824 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-28-90 (08:32) Number: 9269 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: JAMES BEHR Read: (N/A) Subj: ISR Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Well concerning my question #55. I found that i do have to turn off the modem interrupts while serving the disk drive which i had suspected. Does anyone know a very good they could reccomend dealing with Isr's. Thanks. ^book NET/Mail : Intelec ■ DataCom SoftWare ■ NYC ■ 212-496-7946 ■ USR 14.4k PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-30-90 (22:35) Number: 9270 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: DEVIN BEN-HUR Read: (N/A) Subj: Languages Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) From: gls Think.COM (Guy Steele) Subject: Stupid language jokes The proliferation of modern programming languages which seem to have stolen countless features from each other sometimes makes it difficult to remember which language you're using. This guide is offered as a public service to help programmers in such dilemmas. C: You shoot yourself in the foot. Assembly: You crash the OS and overwrite the root disk. The system administrator arrives and shoots you in the foot. After a moment of contemplation, the administrator shoots himself in the foot and then hops around the room rabidly shooting at everyone in sight. APL: You hear a gunshot, and there's a hole in your foot, but you don't remember enough linear algebra to understand what the hell happened. C++: You accidently create a dozen instances of yourself and shoot them all in the foot. Providing emergency medical care is impossible since you can't tell which are bitwise copies and which are just pointing at others and saying, "that's me, over there." Ada: If you are dumb enough to actually use this language, the United States Department of Defense will kidnap you, stand you up in front of a firing squad, and tell the soldiers, "Shoot at his feet." MODULA-2: After realizing that you can't actually accomplish anything in the language, you shoot yourself in the head. Pascal: Same as Modula-2, except the bullets are the wrong type and won't pass through the barrel. The gun explodes. sh,csh,etc.: You can't remember the syntax for anything, so you spend five hours reading man pages before giving up. You then shoot the computer and switch to C. Smalltalk:You spend so much time playing with the graphics and windowing system that your boss shoots you in the foot, takes away your workstation, and makes you develop in COBOL on a character terminal. FORTRAN: You shoot yourself in each toe, iteratively, until you run out of toes, then you read in the next foot and repeat. If you run out of bullets, you continue anyway because you have no exception- processing ability. ALGOL: You shoot yourself in the foot with a musket. The musket is esthetically fascinating, and the wound baffles the adolescent medic in the emergency room. COBOL: USEing a COLT45 HANDGUN, AIM gun at LEG.FOOT, THEN place ARM.HAND.FINGER on HANDGUN.TRIGGER, and SQUEEZE. THEN return HANDGUN to HOLSTER. Check whether shoelace needs to be retied. BASIC: Shoot self in foot with water pistol. On big systems, continue until entire lower body is waterlogged. PL/I: You consume all available system resources, including all the offline bullets. The DataProcessing&Payroll Department doubles its size, triples its budget, acquires four new mainframes, and drops the original one on your foot. SNOBOL: You grab your foot with your hand, then rewrite your hand to be a bullet. The act of shooting the original foot then changes your hand/bullet into yet another foot (a left foot). LISP: You shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you shoot yourself in the appendage which holds... SCHEME: You shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you shoot yourself in the appendage which holds......but none of the other appendages are aware of this happening. English: You put your foot in your mouth, then bite it off. --- ■ EZ 1.27 ■ What a pinhead! Does he not fear us?! ■ R105L:Intelec Net ■ The Higher Powered BBS ■ Sunnyvale, CA ■ 408-737-9447 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-31-90 (01:39) Number: 9271 / 9466 (Echo) To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: ZAREH DER GEVORKIAN Read: (N/A) Subj: APPLICATION PRGMR NEEDED Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Attention professional programmers / analysts: We are currently accepting bids for a multiuser application system to accomplish the following tasks: * - Customer billing application * - Customer information database * - Application to generate work orders - Materials break-down / Estimating application These are the most important applications we will need. I am personally writing a lead-tracking application in dBASE III+ (mainly because we already have dBase !). Therefore, any applications written, will have to be dBase compatible, or at least be able to read dbf files, as it will need to link with the lead tracking application. From what little research I've done, it seems that Oracle could be a potential choice; however, I am open to suggestions. .. As far as the hardware is concerned, we currently have two Stride machines (based on the 68030 chip) running at 33Mhz, with approximately 7 or 8 Wyse terminals linked via rs-232 cable, as well as my 386SX and possibly another PC (to be hooked up when we move to a new OS). As I mention above, we will need a new operating system (preferably a version of Unix) as the current OS, called the P-System, is useless! Again, I am open to suggestions for the OS as well, but Unix seems to be a good choice because of its relative low price, as well as its multiuser/multitasking capabilities. If anyone is interested in more information in order to submit a bid, please call me at the following telephone number. Serious inquiries only please. (800)346-7663 EXT. 31 In California If you have any suggestions, or if you can refer me to a consulting/analyst firm, please leave me a message here. Thanks in advance for any and all replies. Zareh DerGevorkian Bilt-Well Roofing Co. Los Angeles, CA. PS. The best time to reach me is between 10:00 AM and 5:00 PM, Monday through Friday. PCRelay:FORTYTO -> #405 Intelec (tm) SouthWestern Region 4.10 42 BBS III La Crescenta, Ca (818) 957-6020 Date: 09-01-90 (01:28) Number: 9272 / 9466 (Echo) To: ARTHUR GREGORY Refer#: 9253 From: JANOS SZAMOSFALVI Read: NO Subj: C OR BASIC Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) │I have been a programer in basic for a time now, and I am thinking of │trying C ... but first I wanted to find out one thing, and that is if │C is better than basic when it comes to programing with graphics │I would be thankful to anyone who answers my message thanks!!!! C is definitely better. Janos --- ■ EZ 1.27 ■ Date: 08-31-90 (15:44) Number: 9273 / 9466 (Echo) To: ARTHUR GREGORY Refer#: NONE From: ADAM WEINER Read: NO Subj: (R)C OR BASIC Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) It depends how you define better. If better is ease of programming, then basic has the advantage. But if you wish to have more flexibility and speed, use C. I say this because of the ease assembly language routines can be linked to C, letting you create your own graphics routine in assembly, while keeping developement time down by using most of the complex mathematical and memory management routines already written by C compiler manufactuers. PCRelay:EMPORIUM -> #706 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 PC-EMPORIUM, Boca Raton, FL. 407-994-3690 Date: 08-30-90 (10:37) Number: 9274 / 9466 (Echo) To: JOSHUA MACCRAW Refer#: 9255 From: LARRY HELBER Read: NO Subj: MASM VS. TASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) -> Is there any differnce between Microsoft MASM & Borlands TASM?? I.E. -> Can TASM do all that MASM can??? I have both and if MASM if fully -> supported by TASM then I can just drop MASM. Yes you can drop MASM. TASM will emulate MASM including all of its buggs (oops I mean quarks). I would still hang on to the original disks since you already have them. BTW the real features of TASM come into play when you get out of the MASM mode. NET/Mail : Intelec: Micro Science - NEW PHONE! ->>> 716 594-1804 <<<- PCRelay:DATACOMM -> INTELEC > North East Regional SUPER Hub 4.10ß9 Data Comm, Rochester NY, 14.4HST 716-271-1814 Date: 08-31-90 (13:14) Number: 9275 / 9466 (Echo) To: RICKIE BELITZ Refer#: 9259 From: JOSHUA MACCRAW Read: NO Subj: MASM VS. TASM Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Thanks for the response, but my question still is "Which of the TWO I mentioned is better, & does TASM support MASM specific options." My store sells the both packages, and I was given both packages for demo. I have promptly confiscated the TASM package hoping that was the same as MASM. I am just learning so my only concern is that I can use TASM to do MASM stuff, & not have to pay anything for the package!!!! Joshua Maccraw NET/Mail : INTELEC Net - Phantasm BBs 201-291-2302(HST)/4134(HAYES96) PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-31-90 (05:37) Number: 9276 / 9466 (Echo) To: JEFF GARZIK Refer#: 9251 From: GARY BOUCHARD Read: NO Subj: ENVIRONMENT PROMPT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) -> Just set the environment variable "PROMPT" to whatever you wish it to -> be. It might to smart to save the PROMPT first through a call to -> GetEnv() Jeff, the problem with that is, in Turbo Pascal, there is now way to SET 'PROMPT'. They allow you to set Cbreak, and Disk Verify on/off, but no way to alter the environment variables. What I am looking for is a way to alter the environment table before going into the shell, but allow it the boot up environment to be restored on exit of the program. (* Gary Bouchard / The Computer Store BBS, Florida *) NET/Mail : The Computer Store BBS --> Intelec(tm) Network (904)797-4824 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST Date: 08-31-90 (05:46) Number: 9277 / 9466 (Echo) To: DAVID P SMITH Refer#: 9252 From: GARY BOUCHARD Read: NO Subj: ENVIRONMENT PROMPT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: PROGRAM (8) Read Type: GENERAL (+) -> Yes that is whats happening. I looked into the .EXE file and toward -> the end there is a PROMPT=EXIT to xxxxx$_$p$g. I don't know Turbo -> but I would think there is a command to output to the console device -> which allow these type of changes. David, according to the books that I have on Turbo, and the DOS Programmers Reference, you can not alter the environment table from inside a program in Pascal...The books say that you have to be at the DOS prompt to change this...I believe that there *IS* a way to do it, because I see it being done. The PROMPT example you supply about is exactly what I have been trying to pass, but to no avail! I wonder if there is an ASM routine that will do this, that I can call external to alter the environment, then restore on exit.... What about it guys..is there such an animal? Maybe one with a .TPASCAL m∩y.╩╫ƒn¿▄≥g reak, and Disk Verify on/off, but no way to alter the environment variables. What I am looking for is a way to alter the environment table before going into the shell, but allow it the boot up environment to be restored on exit of the program. (* Gary Bouchard / The Computer Store BBS, Florida *) NET/Mail : The Computer Store BBS --> Intelec(tm) Network (904)797-4824 PCRelay:INTELEC -> #402 Intelec (tm) Network 4.10 Intelec Host BBS 516 867-4446/7 HAY -4448 HST